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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7556946" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Please don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes it seems you have a beef with a lot of things. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>To some extent I disagree.</p><p></p><p>What needs to be fully prepped, at least to a solid framework level, is the setting: the cultures, the maps, the history, the pantheons, some key people both past and present, and so on. Having a stack of adventures handy, be they canned modules or homebrew ideas, is also useful; but other than vague ideas I don't think these all need to be pre-placed.</p><p></p><p>My current campaign started this way. I had nearly all the framework in place before puck drop, and had a couple of players who already knew how they were going to cause a party to form around their PCs - a Bard and a Cavalier rolling up-country from village to village, with at each stop the Bard singing about the heroic deeds they had (not in fact) done and the heroic deeds they were going to do "up in the mountains" while the Cavalier tried his best to look impressive and heroic, and asking for brave and sturdy adventurers to join them - and at about one PC per village the party formed. Up in the mountains awaited B2 Keep on the Borderlands, one of a very few adventures I had hard-placed but only after hearing what these players had in mind.</p><p></p><p>Once 'Keep' was done they went back down-country and split the party in two (i.e. I started running two different groups of PCs with some overlapping players). One group proactively looked for something to do (and found it, getting into a variant on A-series) while I had to put something in the path of the other group. Since then it's been a mix of "let's go this way and see what's there" and "here's an adventure hook or ten"; and ten-plus years later it's still going.</p><p></p><p>During play, it is; because you've done all the heavy lifting before the puck ever hit the ice.</p><p></p><p>Exactly. Ideally, if the setting prep is solid enough the macro-scale game largely runs itself once it starts, leaving me to worry about the run-of-play minutae such as statting up monsters and keeping notes and logs.</p><p></p><p>No idea what Dunning-Kruger effect is (don't bother explaining it <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> ) but in general I agree with the rest of this.</p><p></p><p>Maybe, but I'd go further and say that an experienced DM will already have the setting in place and be easily able to slot the module (or AP) into that setting such that it makes sense for it to be there. (for these purposes let's ignore modules or adventures such as Q1 Demonweb Pits that intentionally take the PCs off-world or somewhere equally remote)</p><p></p><p>Exactly.</p><p></p><p>I agree, to a point.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes it works out well, however, if you take a player's cue (not queue, that's a lineup <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> ) or idea and stow it away for long enough that the player doesn't remember she gave it to you, and then use it. Example: a player in my game had an idea for a variant monster - a gelatinous cube that hung from and moved along the ceiling, to avoid the clean-floor hint that a cube might be about. I took this little piece of brilliance and stowed it away. Half a real-world year later a party is in a dungeon and notices there's a "tide-line" about six inches off the floor, above which the walls are clean and below which is lots of dust and dirt. They figure (on only that evidence) it has something to do with periodic flooding and carry on - and guess whose PC walked face-first into the cube? Yep, the same guy who had suggested it in the first place! (even better was that I had to tell him after that it was his idea, as he'd completely forgotten ever suggesting it)</p><p></p><p>I wouldn't say never, but I would say the result would tend to be - surprise surprise - more random. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>The fault there lies in having whatever's under that random rock in hex A10318 be so important to the plot that it has to be found. A true sandbox might well have something like this, but the continuation of the game/story/plot wouldn't rest on it being found.</p><p></p><p>This is one thing. This is another.</p><p></p><p>If all the second part there is done right the first part shouldn't be as necessary, as there'll be enough of a setting - including legends and lore - in place to pique some interest. The difference is that interest will probably go in an unforeseen direction, thus keeping the DM on her toes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7556946, member: 29398"] Please don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes it seems you have a beef with a lot of things. :) To some extent I disagree. What needs to be fully prepped, at least to a solid framework level, is the setting: the cultures, the maps, the history, the pantheons, some key people both past and present, and so on. Having a stack of adventures handy, be they canned modules or homebrew ideas, is also useful; but other than vague ideas I don't think these all need to be pre-placed. My current campaign started this way. I had nearly all the framework in place before puck drop, and had a couple of players who already knew how they were going to cause a party to form around their PCs - a Bard and a Cavalier rolling up-country from village to village, with at each stop the Bard singing about the heroic deeds they had (not in fact) done and the heroic deeds they were going to do "up in the mountains" while the Cavalier tried his best to look impressive and heroic, and asking for brave and sturdy adventurers to join them - and at about one PC per village the party formed. Up in the mountains awaited B2 Keep on the Borderlands, one of a very few adventures I had hard-placed but only after hearing what these players had in mind. Once 'Keep' was done they went back down-country and split the party in two (i.e. I started running two different groups of PCs with some overlapping players). One group proactively looked for something to do (and found it, getting into a variant on A-series) while I had to put something in the path of the other group. Since then it's been a mix of "let's go this way and see what's there" and "here's an adventure hook or ten"; and ten-plus years later it's still going. During play, it is; because you've done all the heavy lifting before the puck ever hit the ice. Exactly. Ideally, if the setting prep is solid enough the macro-scale game largely runs itself once it starts, leaving me to worry about the run-of-play minutae such as statting up monsters and keeping notes and logs. No idea what Dunning-Kruger effect is (don't bother explaining it :) ) but in general I agree with the rest of this. Maybe, but I'd go further and say that an experienced DM will already have the setting in place and be easily able to slot the module (or AP) into that setting such that it makes sense for it to be there. (for these purposes let's ignore modules or adventures such as Q1 Demonweb Pits that intentionally take the PCs off-world or somewhere equally remote) Exactly. I agree, to a point. Sometimes it works out well, however, if you take a player's cue (not queue, that's a lineup :) ) or idea and stow it away for long enough that the player doesn't remember she gave it to you, and then use it. Example: a player in my game had an idea for a variant monster - a gelatinous cube that hung from and moved along the ceiling, to avoid the clean-floor hint that a cube might be about. I took this little piece of brilliance and stowed it away. Half a real-world year later a party is in a dungeon and notices there's a "tide-line" about six inches off the floor, above which the walls are clean and below which is lots of dust and dirt. They figure (on only that evidence) it has something to do with periodic flooding and carry on - and guess whose PC walked face-first into the cube? Yep, the same guy who had suggested it in the first place! (even better was that I had to tell him after that it was his idea, as he'd completely forgotten ever suggesting it) I wouldn't say never, but I would say the result would tend to be - surprise surprise - more random. :) The fault there lies in having whatever's under that random rock in hex A10318 be so important to the plot that it has to be found. A true sandbox might well have something like this, but the continuation of the game/story/plot wouldn't rest on it being found. This is one thing. This is another. If all the second part there is done right the first part shouldn't be as necessary, as there'll be enough of a setting - including legends and lore - in place to pique some interest. The difference is that interest will probably go in an unforeseen direction, thus keeping the DM on her toes. [/QUOTE]
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