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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
What Are The Changes In Pathfinder Remastered?
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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 9037837" data-attributes="member: 7026617"><p>I don't think its so much the argument that they can <em>only</em> be relative to PCs as much as that in practice, doing it otherwise produces worse outcomes. </p><p></p><p>I really liked the fact that D&D 3e made PCs and non-PCs (including monsters) more-or-less on the same scale and mechanically showed a common relationship. It was what I was used to in non-D&D games like Runequest or Fantasy Hero and in many ways is very much my preference.</p><p></p><p>But it didn't, in the end, work worth a damn. Among other things it contributed to the game being almost un-GM-able as you hit higher levels. A big part of that is that D&D derivatives are one giant pile of special cases, from spells and feats to monster special abilities, and if the number of them increase in NPCs the way they do in PCs they become fundamentally unmanageable at a certain point, but at the other end, they're largely the things that break up the otherwise strong cookie-cutter tendencies of class systems, so you don't want to move too much away from that with PCs.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I personally find they create some cognitive dissonance in what I'm looking at when I encounter them. I understand why they're a necessity, but that doesn't make the dissonance go away.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is true, but not to expect people to in some cases look at it that way only works if you ignore the way people who expect things that are, in some ways, similar on some level expect them to look similar in how they're handled mechanically. That just doesn't work very well in the D&D sphere.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 9037837, member: 7026617"] I don't think its so much the argument that they can [I]only[/I] be relative to PCs as much as that in practice, doing it otherwise produces worse outcomes. I really liked the fact that D&D 3e made PCs and non-PCs (including monsters) more-or-less on the same scale and mechanically showed a common relationship. It was what I was used to in non-D&D games like Runequest or Fantasy Hero and in many ways is very much my preference. But it didn't, in the end, work worth a damn. Among other things it contributed to the game being almost un-GM-able as you hit higher levels. A big part of that is that D&D derivatives are one giant pile of special cases, from spells and feats to monster special abilities, and if the number of them increase in NPCs the way they do in PCs they become fundamentally unmanageable at a certain point, but at the other end, they're largely the things that break up the otherwise strong cookie-cutter tendencies of class systems, so you don't want to move too much away from that with PCs. I personally find they create some cognitive dissonance in what I'm looking at when I encounter them. I understand why they're a necessity, but that doesn't make the dissonance go away. This is true, but not to expect people to in some cases look at it that way only works if you ignore the way people who expect things that are, in some ways, similar on some level expect them to look similar in how they're handled mechanically. That just doesn't work very well in the D&D sphere. [/QUOTE]
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