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What are the Roles now?
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6501565" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>The real answer is that it really depends on your playstyle.</p><p></p><p>People who liked 4e's roles will argue that 4e didn't invent roles, it merely labelled and formalized them. That's not inaccurate, it's just not universal. Any point-based, race-to-0 system has four major ways to affect it: reduce the enemy's points (striker), regain your own points (leader), stop the enemy from reducing points (defender/controller) and make it easy for you to reduce their points (leader again). 5e combat hasn't gotten rid of the race-to-0 HP system, so 5e combat still "exhibits" these roles. So people that say that 4e's roles are only a 4e thing aren't quite seeing that element of it.</p><p></p><p>The reason they aren't seeing that element of it is because, for a lot of these players, combat was never what the game was "about." In 4e, a role is part of your class, part of your most defining character aspect. If you're a warlock, your *job* is to do damage. Says so right on the tin. If you're taking the warlock class because you like the fluff and want to interact with critters, that's great, but one of your defining aspects is that you do damage in combat. </p><p></p><p>In 5e, that kind of role is much lighter. Any class is capable of being a striker/leader/defender/controller, at least for a little while, perhaps with some work. Everyone can buy healing potions (and healing during combat is mostly about not being at 0 hp anymore), anyone can nova, anyone can take a few hits, anyone can impose a condition or move folks around. Some are better than others, but everyone can do a minimal amount. That's not to say that there aren't roles, just that they aren't nearly as defining as they were in 4e, and that they're more flexible -- you can be a "tanky" warlock if you really want to be. That's not necessarily what warlocks do best, but whatever, go for it. You don't need to be better at that than the fighter to be good enough to contribute. Part of that is because combat is less of a monolithic entity than it was in 4e -- being able to take 1 round of hits from the monster might be enough to handle the whole fight. </p><p></p><p>5e is also a more holistic game in that it considers combat one part of a greater whole. What you do during a fight doesn't define you. What is arguably more important is <em>during an adventure</em>. In that respect, 5e has brought roaring back the "roles" of earlier e's: the Warrior, the Explorer, the Speaker, and the Restorer. Less about how you perform in combat, these are about how you solve problems in an adventure (kill it, go around it, talk with it, or run through it and deal with the fallout). In keeping with 5e's philosophy, none of these roles is exclusive -- you don't "need" to be a Cleric to be a Restorer, and not every Cleric IS a Restorer. A Fighter with a half-decent Str, Dex and Cha could do all four things pretty well, though they'd be BETTER at being the Warrior. So the roles are loosely linked to class -- every class has a cylinder it fires "best" on, but it can do other stuff, too. </p><p></p><p>Which means that none of these roles -- combat roles or adventuring roles -- is <em>definitive</em>, and that's what a lot of people mean when they say 5e "doesn't have roles." They don't need to CARE about these roles as an element of character construction. They aren't a bad Warlock if they don't pump their damage up. They aren't a bad bard if they never take healing magic. They don't have jobs they HAVE to do. They just have things that maybe they're pretty good at by default if they want to go do it. </p><p></p><p>Which fits the way a lot of folks make characters and play D&D. Because it's a game about your character, and because you contribute through one character, having a diversity of things you can do is very, very key.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6501565, member: 2067"] The real answer is that it really depends on your playstyle. People who liked 4e's roles will argue that 4e didn't invent roles, it merely labelled and formalized them. That's not inaccurate, it's just not universal. Any point-based, race-to-0 system has four major ways to affect it: reduce the enemy's points (striker), regain your own points (leader), stop the enemy from reducing points (defender/controller) and make it easy for you to reduce their points (leader again). 5e combat hasn't gotten rid of the race-to-0 HP system, so 5e combat still "exhibits" these roles. So people that say that 4e's roles are only a 4e thing aren't quite seeing that element of it. The reason they aren't seeing that element of it is because, for a lot of these players, combat was never what the game was "about." In 4e, a role is part of your class, part of your most defining character aspect. If you're a warlock, your *job* is to do damage. Says so right on the tin. If you're taking the warlock class because you like the fluff and want to interact with critters, that's great, but one of your defining aspects is that you do damage in combat. In 5e, that kind of role is much lighter. Any class is capable of being a striker/leader/defender/controller, at least for a little while, perhaps with some work. Everyone can buy healing potions (and healing during combat is mostly about not being at 0 hp anymore), anyone can nova, anyone can take a few hits, anyone can impose a condition or move folks around. Some are better than others, but everyone can do a minimal amount. That's not to say that there aren't roles, just that they aren't nearly as defining as they were in 4e, and that they're more flexible -- you can be a "tanky" warlock if you really want to be. That's not necessarily what warlocks do best, but whatever, go for it. You don't need to be better at that than the fighter to be good enough to contribute. Part of that is because combat is less of a monolithic entity than it was in 4e -- being able to take 1 round of hits from the monster might be enough to handle the whole fight. 5e is also a more holistic game in that it considers combat one part of a greater whole. What you do during a fight doesn't define you. What is arguably more important is [I]during an adventure[/I]. In that respect, 5e has brought roaring back the "roles" of earlier e's: the Warrior, the Explorer, the Speaker, and the Restorer. Less about how you perform in combat, these are about how you solve problems in an adventure (kill it, go around it, talk with it, or run through it and deal with the fallout). In keeping with 5e's philosophy, none of these roles is exclusive -- you don't "need" to be a Cleric to be a Restorer, and not every Cleric IS a Restorer. A Fighter with a half-decent Str, Dex and Cha could do all four things pretty well, though they'd be BETTER at being the Warrior. So the roles are loosely linked to class -- every class has a cylinder it fires "best" on, but it can do other stuff, too. Which means that none of these roles -- combat roles or adventuring roles -- is [I]definitive[/I], and that's what a lot of people mean when they say 5e "doesn't have roles." They don't need to CARE about these roles as an element of character construction. They aren't a bad Warlock if they don't pump their damage up. They aren't a bad bard if they never take healing magic. They don't have jobs they HAVE to do. They just have things that maybe they're pretty good at by default if they want to go do it. Which fits the way a lot of folks make characters and play D&D. Because it's a game about your character, and because you contribute through one character, having a diversity of things you can do is very, very key. [/QUOTE]
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