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What are your multiclassing house rules?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6413413" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I don't see that at all. Now, of course you could multi-class into fanatic/hunter, which is a character that passionately cares about killing things.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This I do see, as they are both skill monkey classes of various sorts on something of a continuum. However, Explorer has a d10 HD and full BAB progression compared to a rogues d6 HD and 3/4 BAB progression. There is also some considerable variation beyond that in class abilities, with the Explorer not really having the 'sneaky' trope and the Rogue not really having quite the ability to get into Boating, Navigation, Knowledge (Geography & People), Survival and general exploration based skill set. Of course, you could multiclass into both to get a 'scout' type build and even multi-classed Explorer/Hunter/Rogue isn't out of the question, for a sort of rugged wilderness type with a lot of breadth and versatility but not a lot of depth. Certainly there are spaces between the classes for archetypes, but I don't feel they overlap. Kludging the Explorer and Rogue together is possible, but I think they stand better by themselves. Too much combining and you end up with a sort of point buy system.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have generic mechanics for doing it with pretty much anything. The real trick with oozes would be figuring out some way to be immune to contact with your pets. But you could do this with constructs, vermin, or really anything that isn't intelligent.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It wasn't though. He actual race was Hobgoblin, but the player that designed the character could have pulled the trick with any race and I don't allow templates in my game. He just took Feyborn and played with his spell-like abilities, then multi-classed into some martial classes - I think he ended up Feyborn/Fighter/Explorer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>D&D is basically supers with swords. Elastagirl and Spiderman could easily be trope magic wielders of some sort. So your comment about Warlock is spot on. If you have a new player that wants to make a trope magic wielder - say he's a dork or she's 13 or he's 41 but still a goof - where the trope is something like, "Mostly I want to fight, but I want to have spider senses, super strength, can climb walls, and cover things with webs.", can you get there? Could you get there for any of the X-Men? Pretty much any super of less than godlike power is IMO a valid concept. After 20th if you want to go there, even the godlike ones aren't out of bounds.</p><p></p><p>I no longer have Druids as a class, but I think you are on the right track when you note that you could do this by flavoring a spellcaster with vermin magic. However, I'd note that I'm actually asking for the reverse - you'd need magic to stop looking like 'The Fly' or some insect/human hybrid. I'm guessing from your comments that you get there with templates, though personally I'm big on the idea of templates or anything that isn't +0 LA.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Err... now. That's not even close.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But being able to speak to animals doesn't equate to getting animals to do what he wants any more than being able to speak to people equates to getting them to do what you want.</p><p></p><p>I'll just give a small sample of how naturally you can support Tarzan.</p><p></p><p>"FERAL [TRAIT]</p><p>You grew up alone far from civilized lands and call animals brothers.</p><p>Prerequisite: Not fey, appropriate background</p><p>Benefit: You were raised by animals. If you take the Feral trait, you are automatically assumed to have both the Primitive trait and the Illiterate disadvantage as well.</p><p>Empathy (Animal) is always a class skill for you. You begin play knowing the secret language of one group of animals (4 ranks) and may purchase others as bonus languages, but you lose all normal racial bonus languages from your list of bonus languages. </p><p>You find the civilized world to be frequently baffling; no matter how long you remain in it. You have a -4 penalty on all craft, bluff, diplomacy, disable device, open lock, perform, and sense motive checks. On the other hand, you have a +2 bonus on all Knowledge (nature) and Survival skill checks, and climb, jump, survival and swim are always class skills for you. You also have a +4 bonus on skill and ability checks to notice or recognize smells.</p><p>Special: You may not take both this trait and the Adopted trait. If you take the Feral Trait, you are automatically assumed to begin with the Primitive trait as well."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not very paladin like. You'd be mostly a spell-caster with little in the way of being a uniquely chosen representative of your god. You'd turn or rebuke undead which has what to do with the concept? You'd have MAD up the wazoo, with a need to go simultaneously into strength/dexterity/constitution (for your warrior-ish stuff), intelligence (to make up for your lack of skill points), and wisdom/charisma (for your cleric-ish stuff). It does seem looking around though that you've got a 'Divine Trickster' sub-class, so that would probably work. Overall though, it looks like your setting doesn't really support the 'Paladin' concept, but on the other hand considers something like a 'spell-thief', 'mindknife', or some sort of 'were-dragon' concept core to your setting. Mechanically I don't have nearly the same level of support for those concepts, though you could conceivably play someone that grows bat-wings, scales and breathes fire those attributes alone wouldn't be able to carry the concept.</p><p></p><p>So I think I'm pretty safe in saying neither of us support a fully generic setting. If anything, you seem intent on loading base classes with more required class abilities and specific flavor than even core.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6413413, member: 4937"] I don't see that at all. Now, of course you could multi-class into fanatic/hunter, which is a character that passionately cares about killing things. This I do see, as they are both skill monkey classes of various sorts on something of a continuum. However, Explorer has a d10 HD and full BAB progression compared to a rogues d6 HD and 3/4 BAB progression. There is also some considerable variation beyond that in class abilities, with the Explorer not really having the 'sneaky' trope and the Rogue not really having quite the ability to get into Boating, Navigation, Knowledge (Geography & People), Survival and general exploration based skill set. Of course, you could multiclass into both to get a 'scout' type build and even multi-classed Explorer/Hunter/Rogue isn't out of the question, for a sort of rugged wilderness type with a lot of breadth and versatility but not a lot of depth. Certainly there are spaces between the classes for archetypes, but I don't feel they overlap. Kludging the Explorer and Rogue together is possible, but I think they stand better by themselves. Too much combining and you end up with a sort of point buy system. I have generic mechanics for doing it with pretty much anything. The real trick with oozes would be figuring out some way to be immune to contact with your pets. But you could do this with constructs, vermin, or really anything that isn't intelligent. It wasn't though. He actual race was Hobgoblin, but the player that designed the character could have pulled the trick with any race and I don't allow templates in my game. He just took Feyborn and played with his spell-like abilities, then multi-classed into some martial classes - I think he ended up Feyborn/Fighter/Explorer. D&D is basically supers with swords. Elastagirl and Spiderman could easily be trope magic wielders of some sort. So your comment about Warlock is spot on. If you have a new player that wants to make a trope magic wielder - say he's a dork or she's 13 or he's 41 but still a goof - where the trope is something like, "Mostly I want to fight, but I want to have spider senses, super strength, can climb walls, and cover things with webs.", can you get there? Could you get there for any of the X-Men? Pretty much any super of less than godlike power is IMO a valid concept. After 20th if you want to go there, even the godlike ones aren't out of bounds. I no longer have Druids as a class, but I think you are on the right track when you note that you could do this by flavoring a spellcaster with vermin magic. However, I'd note that I'm actually asking for the reverse - you'd need magic to stop looking like 'The Fly' or some insect/human hybrid. I'm guessing from your comments that you get there with templates, though personally I'm big on the idea of templates or anything that isn't +0 LA. Err... now. That's not even close. But being able to speak to animals doesn't equate to getting animals to do what he wants any more than being able to speak to people equates to getting them to do what you want. I'll just give a small sample of how naturally you can support Tarzan. "FERAL [TRAIT] You grew up alone far from civilized lands and call animals brothers. Prerequisite: Not fey, appropriate background Benefit: You were raised by animals. If you take the Feral trait, you are automatically assumed to have both the Primitive trait and the Illiterate disadvantage as well. Empathy (Animal) is always a class skill for you. You begin play knowing the secret language of one group of animals (4 ranks) and may purchase others as bonus languages, but you lose all normal racial bonus languages from your list of bonus languages. You find the civilized world to be frequently baffling; no matter how long you remain in it. You have a -4 penalty on all craft, bluff, diplomacy, disable device, open lock, perform, and sense motive checks. On the other hand, you have a +2 bonus on all Knowledge (nature) and Survival skill checks, and climb, jump, survival and swim are always class skills for you. You also have a +4 bonus on skill and ability checks to notice or recognize smells. Special: You may not take both this trait and the Adopted trait. If you take the Feral Trait, you are automatically assumed to begin with the Primitive trait as well." Why? Not very paladin like. You'd be mostly a spell-caster with little in the way of being a uniquely chosen representative of your god. You'd turn or rebuke undead which has what to do with the concept? You'd have MAD up the wazoo, with a need to go simultaneously into strength/dexterity/constitution (for your warrior-ish stuff), intelligence (to make up for your lack of skill points), and wisdom/charisma (for your cleric-ish stuff). It does seem looking around though that you've got a 'Divine Trickster' sub-class, so that would probably work. Overall though, it looks like your setting doesn't really support the 'Paladin' concept, but on the other hand considers something like a 'spell-thief', 'mindknife', or some sort of 'were-dragon' concept core to your setting. Mechanically I don't have nearly the same level of support for those concepts, though you could conceivably play someone that grows bat-wings, scales and breathes fire those attributes alone wouldn't be able to carry the concept. So I think I'm pretty safe in saying neither of us support a fully generic setting. If anything, you seem intent on loading base classes with more required class abilities and specific flavor than even core. [/QUOTE]
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