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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
What Aspects of 4E Made It into 5E?
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<blockquote data-quote="Lord Mhoram" data-source="post: 7401853" data-attributes="member: 4789"><p>I've said for years that the reason 4E didn't "Feel" like D&D to some people (not just haters, though many probably became haters) is that (using 3fold terminology) older D&D was sorta gamist, 3rd was sorta simulationist, and 4E was gamist/Nar. For someone who saw the rules as a definition of the world (using common sense to ignore corner cases), the concept that the same monster could use 3 different write ups, solo, normal, and minion and still be the same monster, just different in how the character interacts with them completely beyond the pale. Add to the percieved samey-ness of classes and power, and the "balance by encounter/day" rather than adventure and a lot of things just added up to "this isn't D&D" - that is also from self anlysis on my reaction to it as well. When fights were more tactical in 4E then when I played Hero/Champions you know it was a different style of D&D. (admittedly a style that was very well crafted, but not what I wanted out of the game).</p><p></p><p>So along comes 5E. It takes a different view on balance - potions not taking hit dice, but the did take healing surges (as I recall) in 4E, which speaks to a more sim approach. Spellcasting is different than martial abiltiies - so mages and fighters don't have the same structure is another big percieved difference. Natural language rather than formal language (again something that I was very familar with in HERO). There are some mechanical differences. </p><p></p><p>But as you said the presentation is huge. When I read the 4E rulebook, it was like reading the Hero 5th rulebook - very dry descriptions of abilities to be used as a reference book. The 5E have a lot more flair that makes just reading them enjoyable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lord Mhoram, post: 7401853, member: 4789"] I've said for years that the reason 4E didn't "Feel" like D&D to some people (not just haters, though many probably became haters) is that (using 3fold terminology) older D&D was sorta gamist, 3rd was sorta simulationist, and 4E was gamist/Nar. For someone who saw the rules as a definition of the world (using common sense to ignore corner cases), the concept that the same monster could use 3 different write ups, solo, normal, and minion and still be the same monster, just different in how the character interacts with them completely beyond the pale. Add to the percieved samey-ness of classes and power, and the "balance by encounter/day" rather than adventure and a lot of things just added up to "this isn't D&D" - that is also from self anlysis on my reaction to it as well. When fights were more tactical in 4E then when I played Hero/Champions you know it was a different style of D&D. (admittedly a style that was very well crafted, but not what I wanted out of the game). So along comes 5E. It takes a different view on balance - potions not taking hit dice, but the did take healing surges (as I recall) in 4E, which speaks to a more sim approach. Spellcasting is different than martial abiltiies - so mages and fighters don't have the same structure is another big percieved difference. Natural language rather than formal language (again something that I was very familar with in HERO). There are some mechanical differences. But as you said the presentation is huge. When I read the 4E rulebook, it was like reading the Hero 5th rulebook - very dry descriptions of abilities to be used as a reference book. The 5E have a lot more flair that makes just reading them enjoyable. [/QUOTE]
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