Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What can you tell me about Tiamat? Bring your imagination!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="doctorhook" data-source="post: 4768235" data-attributes="member: 58401"><p>That's just fine! I consider myself reasonably familiar with the cosmology and lore of 4E, so I'm confident I can find a place to put most of whatever you can give me. It's just as well, anyway, because there's isn't much lore that's yet been detailed in 4E.</p><p></p><p>The short version of what I'm getting from what you're saying, Shemeska, is that Asmodeus and Tiamat probably don't talk much, and that overall, they're probably indifferent to one another. To elaborate, they cooperate when their interest coincide, and they war when their interests conflict, but for the most part, they're not playing the same ballgame, and so they have no reason to interact much.</p><p></p><p>Asmodeus seems like a bad mofo, who wants a proverbial finger in every proverbial pie; in fact, that's pretty much what he's about -- control and domination. To this end, <span style="color: Blue">I'm going to say that perhaps (deity) Asmodeus has bargained with (deity) Tiamat to give her access to a few legions of Devils, as well as lordship over all Abishais.</span> In return, Asmodeus gets... what? Information, obviously, from the veritable army of spies he'd then have in Tiamat's service, but what else? Surely Tiamat is wiser than to accept a gift from Asmodeus... Perhaps he demanded her eternal alliegence against the Lawful Good forces of Bahamut; it's perhaps the only thing Tiamat (the goddess of greed) would have agreed to give even for free.</p><p></p><p>How does that spin sit with you, Shemeska? <span style="color: Blue">Tiamat gets armies of Devil and Abishai servants, Asmodeus gets a network of informants and a measure of indirect control over Tiamat's forces, and both Tiamat and Asmodeus get an ally against their mutual hated foe, Bahamut.</span>* (Of course, they still won't interact much, nor very often.)</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">(*It's important to bear in mind that in 4E, Bahamut is not only the King of Good Dragons, but he's also the main deity of justice and honor; basically, he's the exactly the kind of Lawful Goody-Good that Asmodeus would despise.)</span></p><p></p><p>(Highlighting added.) I think you're mostly correct in your assessment. Making Asmodeus into a deity in 4E was really a gesture to solidify the fact that he <em>is</em> the baddest, most dominating evil-guy around; there's certainly no confusion about that anymore.</p><p></p><p>OTOH, in 4E "deity status" is almost a formality; there hasn't yet been any really meaningful mechanical difference between deities, primordials, archdevils, demon lords, elder evils, archfey, "stars", or even super-powerful mortals, except insofar as the scope of their worship across the cosmology.* For example, most of the gods have lots of influence because their religions have a ton of followers, but Orcus (a Demon Prince) does too, because of the size of his cult; OTOH, Tharizdun is a deity with limited influence because he has such a small following. Furthermore, deities have control over certain domains, but so do other super-beings; for example, Orcus is the Demon Prince of Undeath, while certain archfey control various natural, seasonal, or environmental domains (though all the domains I can think of here are also duplicated by deities, too). Finally, the mythos of 4E places a lot of emphasis upon the war between the gods and the primordials, suggesting some level of parity between these two factions of super-beings.</p><p></p><p>In short, in 4E there's not too much difference between being a god and just being ultra-powerful.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">(*Technically, deities have an ability called "Discorporation" which allows them to reform at some point after being slain -- unless some ritual was performed to make their death permanent -- but it's functionally a flavour effect. Additionally, deities are also immune to attack by beings of less than 20th level, but in practice they're so much more powerful than 20th level that characters below this threshhold wouldn't stand a chance in combat against a deity anyway. Because neither of these effects has a significant bearing upon they deity's abilities, I say that there's not really any meaningful mechanical difference between deities and other super-beings in 4E.)</span></p><p></p><p>Anyway, let me know what you think about my suggestion above (in <span style="color: Blue">blue</span>). I think we might yet be able to make this work...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorhook, post: 4768235, member: 58401"] That's just fine! I consider myself reasonably familiar with the cosmology and lore of 4E, so I'm confident I can find a place to put most of whatever you can give me. It's just as well, anyway, because there's isn't much lore that's yet been detailed in 4E. The short version of what I'm getting from what you're saying, Shemeska, is that Asmodeus and Tiamat probably don't talk much, and that overall, they're probably indifferent to one another. To elaborate, they cooperate when their interest coincide, and they war when their interests conflict, but for the most part, they're not playing the same ballgame, and so they have no reason to interact much. Asmodeus seems like a bad mofo, who wants a proverbial finger in every proverbial pie; in fact, that's pretty much what he's about -- control and domination. To this end, [COLOR=Blue]I'm going to say that perhaps (deity) Asmodeus has bargained with (deity) Tiamat to give her access to a few legions of Devils, as well as lordship over all Abishais.[/COLOR] In return, Asmodeus gets... what? Information, obviously, from the veritable army of spies he'd then have in Tiamat's service, but what else? Surely Tiamat is wiser than to accept a gift from Asmodeus... Perhaps he demanded her eternal alliegence against the Lawful Good forces of Bahamut; it's perhaps the only thing Tiamat (the goddess of greed) would have agreed to give even for free. How does that spin sit with you, Shemeska? [COLOR=Blue]Tiamat gets armies of Devil and Abishai servants, Asmodeus gets a network of informants and a measure of indirect control over Tiamat's forces, and both Tiamat and Asmodeus get an ally against their mutual hated foe, Bahamut.[/COLOR]* (Of course, they still won't interact much, nor very often.) [SIZE=1](*It's important to bear in mind that in 4E, Bahamut is not only the King of Good Dragons, but he's also the main deity of justice and honor; basically, he's the exactly the kind of Lawful Goody-Good that Asmodeus would despise.)[/SIZE] (Highlighting added.) I think you're mostly correct in your assessment. Making Asmodeus into a deity in 4E was really a gesture to solidify the fact that he [I]is[/I] the baddest, most dominating evil-guy around; there's certainly no confusion about that anymore. OTOH, in 4E "deity status" is almost a formality; there hasn't yet been any really meaningful mechanical difference between deities, primordials, archdevils, demon lords, elder evils, archfey, "stars", or even super-powerful mortals, except insofar as the scope of their worship across the cosmology.* For example, most of the gods have lots of influence because their religions have a ton of followers, but Orcus (a Demon Prince) does too, because of the size of his cult; OTOH, Tharizdun is a deity with limited influence because he has such a small following. Furthermore, deities have control over certain domains, but so do other super-beings; for example, Orcus is the Demon Prince of Undeath, while certain archfey control various natural, seasonal, or environmental domains (though all the domains I can think of here are also duplicated by deities, too). Finally, the mythos of 4E places a lot of emphasis upon the war between the gods and the primordials, suggesting some level of parity between these two factions of super-beings. In short, in 4E there's not too much difference between being a god and just being ultra-powerful. [SIZE=1](*Technically, deities have an ability called "Discorporation" which allows them to reform at some point after being slain -- unless some ritual was performed to make their death permanent -- but it's functionally a flavour effect. Additionally, deities are also immune to attack by beings of less than 20th level, but in practice they're so much more powerful than 20th level that characters below this threshhold wouldn't stand a chance in combat against a deity anyway. Because neither of these effects has a significant bearing upon they deity's abilities, I say that there's not really any meaningful mechanical difference between deities and other super-beings in 4E.)[/SIZE] Anyway, let me know what you think about my suggestion above (in [COLOR=Blue]blue[/COLOR]). I think we might yet be able to make this work... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What can you tell me about Tiamat? Bring your imagination!
Top