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What Did You Want Fourth Edition to be Like?
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<blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 4690832" data-attributes="member: 3400"><p>I can see what you're getting at here. The one thing I think that might rein that in a little is having to hit an AC more times than not because that's typically one of the opposition's highest defenses. But I can see how you're coming to your conclusions.</p><p></p><p>For me, the cheesing of stats is more of a problem. While using the prime stat to determine most attacks is nice (int for wizards, etc), I find the whole package on stats to be a step backward from 3e. In 3e, most stats had some use for classes (Cha being the weakest except for paladins and clerics) but in 4e, depending on the class you pick and the focus in that class, you can really min-max things out and do so in ways that I don't think balance out. Take the rogue for example. If I go artful dodger, I can dump 3 stats (Str, Int, Wis) without major consequence. Sure, some skills suffer a little, my opportunity attacks are weak, and I can't carry as much, but my Con helps my Fort defense, hit points, and surges, my Dex helps my main attacks, my Ref defense, my AC, and initiative, and my Cha helps my dodger bonuses and my Will defense. But if I went the brutal thug route, I can't maximize both my offense and hit points/surges.</p><p></p><p>And for classes in general, unless you've got powers that need Int or the group desperately needs a knowledge skill filled (and, really, if you are into min-maxing, why aren't you concentrating knowledge skills with classes that are encouraged to have a good int?), Dex is always better to take because it helps both basic ranged attacks and initiative, something Dex's defense analog cannot do. At least in 3e, a good intelligence brought more skill points. That was often a very attractive prospect, not as easily dismissed as a few more points on knowledge skill rolls.</p><p></p><p>I like 3e's use of the stats better than 4e's.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="billd91, post: 4690832, member: 3400"] I can see what you're getting at here. The one thing I think that might rein that in a little is having to hit an AC more times than not because that's typically one of the opposition's highest defenses. But I can see how you're coming to your conclusions. For me, the cheesing of stats is more of a problem. While using the prime stat to determine most attacks is nice (int for wizards, etc), I find the whole package on stats to be a step backward from 3e. In 3e, most stats had some use for classes (Cha being the weakest except for paladins and clerics) but in 4e, depending on the class you pick and the focus in that class, you can really min-max things out and do so in ways that I don't think balance out. Take the rogue for example. If I go artful dodger, I can dump 3 stats (Str, Int, Wis) without major consequence. Sure, some skills suffer a little, my opportunity attacks are weak, and I can't carry as much, but my Con helps my Fort defense, hit points, and surges, my Dex helps my main attacks, my Ref defense, my AC, and initiative, and my Cha helps my dodger bonuses and my Will defense. But if I went the brutal thug route, I can't maximize both my offense and hit points/surges. And for classes in general, unless you've got powers that need Int or the group desperately needs a knowledge skill filled (and, really, if you are into min-maxing, why aren't you concentrating knowledge skills with classes that are encouraged to have a good int?), Dex is always better to take because it helps both basic ranged attacks and initiative, something Dex's defense analog cannot do. At least in 3e, a good intelligence brought more skill points. That was often a very attractive prospect, not as easily dismissed as a few more points on knowledge skill rolls. I like 3e's use of the stats better than 4e's. [/QUOTE]
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