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What direction should 5th edition take?
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<blockquote data-quote="Afrodyte" data-source="post: 4932838" data-attributes="member: 8713"><p>More like weapon groups are a particular group of instruments - comparing unarmed combat to voice, for example. Specific weapons are more like specific instruments.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I imagine you could treat armor like all other equipment such as implements, foci, and thieves' tools. Wearing armor gives an equipment bonus right off the bat (+1 to +5 from leather to plate). But training with using a certain kind of armor could also give a proficiency bonus. Might be a way to fold that into the skill training system as well. As it stands, you already need above-average Strength and Constitution to be proficient with heavy armor. Why not just fold those attributes into armor training somehow? Sort of like:</p><p></p><p>ARMOR TRAINING SKILLS <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Light Armor (Dex) - includes unarmored?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Heavy Armor (Str? Con?)</li> </ul><p>The feats for skill training can be as follows: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Melee Weapon Training (Axes, Flails, Hammers, Heavy Blades, Light Blades, Maces, Picks, Polearms, Spears, Staffs, Unarmed) - by group</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ranged Weapon Training (Bows, Crossbows, Slings, Thrown) - by group</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Armor Training (heavy or light)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Utility (need a better name) Skill Training (general list of non-combat skills)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Weapon Specialization - specific weapon</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Armor Specialization - specific armor</li> </ul><p>So the class skill list will be more like this (abbreviated for space):</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>CLERIC:</strong> Religion. Choose 3 more trained skills from the following class list plus any 3 other skills: Arcana, Diplomacy, Endurance, Heal, Heavy Armor, History, Insight, Light Armor, Melee Weapon (any group), Ranged Weapon (any group), Religion</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>FIGHTER:</strong> Athletics, Heavy Armor or Light Armor, Melee Weapon (any 2 groups). Choose 3 more trained skills from the following class list plus any 3 other skills: Athletics, Endurance, Heal, Heavy Armor, Intimidate, Light Armor, Melee Weapon (any group), Ranged Weapon (any group)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>ROGUE:</strong> Crossbow, Light Armor, Light Blades, Stealth or Thievery. Choose 2 more trained skills from the following class list plus any 4 other skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Dungeoneering, Insight, Intimidate, Melee Weapon (any group), Perception, Ranged Weapon (any group), Stealth, Streetwise, Thievery</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>WIZARD:</strong> Arcana. Choose 2 more trained skills from the following class list plus any 3 other skills: Arcana, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering, History, Insight, Light Armor, Melee Weapon (any group), Nature, Ranged Weapon (any group), Religion</li> </ul><p>What's to keep a wizard from going nuts with Melee Training (Intelligence) and picking up training in Bows, Crossbows, Heavy Armor, Heavy Blades, and Polearms? Nothing. It's not that important, to be honest. Most of the special abilities - the really good stuff - come from class powers and features.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Afrodyte, post: 4932838, member: 8713"] More like weapon groups are a particular group of instruments - comparing unarmed combat to voice, for example. Specific weapons are more like specific instruments. I imagine you could treat armor like all other equipment such as implements, foci, and thieves' tools. Wearing armor gives an equipment bonus right off the bat (+1 to +5 from leather to plate). But training with using a certain kind of armor could also give a proficiency bonus. Might be a way to fold that into the skill training system as well. As it stands, you already need above-average Strength and Constitution to be proficient with heavy armor. Why not just fold those attributes into armor training somehow? Sort of like: ARMOR TRAINING SKILLS[LIST] [*]Light Armor (Dex) - includes unarmored? [*]Heavy Armor (Str? Con?) [/LIST] The feats for skill training can be as follows:[LIST] [*]Melee Weapon Training (Axes, Flails, Hammers, Heavy Blades, Light Blades, Maces, Picks, Polearms, Spears, Staffs, Unarmed) - by group [*]Ranged Weapon Training (Bows, Crossbows, Slings, Thrown) - by group [*]Armor Training (heavy or light) [*]Utility (need a better name) Skill Training (general list of non-combat skills) [*]Weapon Specialization - specific weapon [*]Armor Specialization - specific armor [/LIST] So the class skill list will be more like this (abbreviated for space): [LIST][*][B]CLERIC:[/B] Religion. Choose 3 more trained skills from the following class list plus any 3 other skills: Arcana, Diplomacy, Endurance, Heal, Heavy Armor, History, Insight, Light Armor, Melee Weapon (any group), Ranged Weapon (any group), Religion [*][B]FIGHTER:[/B] Athletics, Heavy Armor or Light Armor, Melee Weapon (any 2 groups). Choose 3 more trained skills from the following class list plus any 3 other skills: Athletics, Endurance, Heal, Heavy Armor, Intimidate, Light Armor, Melee Weapon (any group), Ranged Weapon (any group) [*][B]ROGUE:[/B] Crossbow, Light Armor, Light Blades, Stealth or Thievery. Choose 2 more trained skills from the following class list plus any 4 other skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Dungeoneering, Insight, Intimidate, Melee Weapon (any group), Perception, Ranged Weapon (any group), Stealth, Streetwise, Thievery [*][B]WIZARD:[/B] Arcana. Choose 2 more trained skills from the following class list plus any 3 other skills: Arcana, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering, History, Insight, Light Armor, Melee Weapon (any group), Nature, Ranged Weapon (any group), Religion[/LIST] What's to keep a wizard from going nuts with Melee Training (Intelligence) and picking up training in Bows, Crossbows, Heavy Armor, Heavy Blades, and Polearms? Nothing. It's not that important, to be honest. Most of the special abilities - the really good stuff - come from class powers and features. [/QUOTE]
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