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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7497380" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>D&D 5e's process has the DM deciding if a roll is necessary before one is called for which takes place after the player has described what he or she wants to do. If the task is obviously impossible, the result is failure, no roll. If it's trivially easy, the result is success, no roll. If it's somewhere in between, has an uncertain outcome, and a meaningful consequence of failure, then some kind of roll is appropriate. What's a meaningful consequence of failure exactly? It's up to the DM, as is whether the outcome of the task is uncertain.</p><p></p><p>And to be clear, I'm not actually <em>accusing</em> you of anything. I said I don't like DMs effectively establishing my character's actions by asking for checks before I described what I want to do. (Because there can't be an ability check without a task to resolve.) Then a bunch of people decided I was wrong about why I didn't like it. I pointed out the rules that support my position. There's really nothing more to it except a bunch of people trying to justify why they do a thing that is in my view more appropriate to a different edition of the game than the current one. You don't have to justify yourself though. I don't play in your game. You don't even run D&D 5e. This will never be an actual problem.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're right to say that I don't use them to "railroad" anyone. That would be against my principles. Consider also that perhaps this tool as it were was baked into D&D 5e by design, especially given the stated goals of play, which may sometimes call for a heavier hand than you would like to make sure everyone has a good time and that an exciting, memorable tale is told as a result of the play experience. That seems like a reasonable conclusion given what I know of the system and what I have gleaned in the last 4 years playing and running it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't really know what your methods are and I no longer play D&D 3e, so I really couldn't say. I don't even really want to get into it. Suffice it to say, the players have sufficient agency to act as they see fit and do so by making reasonably informed choices that don't always result in an ability check. In fact, smart play in such a system is to never try to make an ability check at all by working towards removing uncertainty from the equation and/or the meaningful consequence of failure. Nobody should trust a d20.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7497380, member: 97077"] D&D 5e's process has the DM deciding if a roll is necessary before one is called for which takes place after the player has described what he or she wants to do. If the task is obviously impossible, the result is failure, no roll. If it's trivially easy, the result is success, no roll. If it's somewhere in between, has an uncertain outcome, and a meaningful consequence of failure, then some kind of roll is appropriate. What's a meaningful consequence of failure exactly? It's up to the DM, as is whether the outcome of the task is uncertain. And to be clear, I'm not actually [I]accusing[/I] you of anything. I said I don't like DMs effectively establishing my character's actions by asking for checks before I described what I want to do. (Because there can't be an ability check without a task to resolve.) Then a bunch of people decided I was wrong about why I didn't like it. I pointed out the rules that support my position. There's really nothing more to it except a bunch of people trying to justify why they do a thing that is in my view more appropriate to a different edition of the game than the current one. You don't have to justify yourself though. I don't play in your game. You don't even run D&D 5e. This will never be an actual problem. You're right to say that I don't use them to "railroad" anyone. That would be against my principles. Consider also that perhaps this tool as it were was baked into D&D 5e by design, especially given the stated goals of play, which may sometimes call for a heavier hand than you would like to make sure everyone has a good time and that an exciting, memorable tale is told as a result of the play experience. That seems like a reasonable conclusion given what I know of the system and what I have gleaned in the last 4 years playing and running it. I don't really know what your methods are and I no longer play D&D 3e, so I really couldn't say. I don't even really want to get into it. Suffice it to say, the players have sufficient agency to act as they see fit and do so by making reasonably informed choices that don't always result in an ability check. In fact, smart play in such a system is to never try to make an ability check at all by working towards removing uncertainty from the equation and/or the meaningful consequence of failure. Nobody should trust a d20. [/QUOTE]
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