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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7504577" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>The weird thing about these discussions is that when the level of detail is actually parsed, we're talking like 4 to 10 words difference between asking to make a check where the DM has to take a guess at what the player wants to do and stating a goal and approach where the DM doesn't have to do that. If that. And those 4 to 10 words are basically transferring from the DM to the player. It's not actually <em>extra</em> words.</p><p></p><p>In other people's games, what I typically see is the player doesn't describe a goal and approach within the standard of reasonable specificity. Then the DM picks up the slack and assumes or establishes what the character does when narrating the result of the adventurer's action. If the player agrees, play continues. If the player doesn't agree with the assumption, there's an objection and that needs to be hashed out.</p><p></p><p>That is a very common approach but gets it backward in my view. The DM should not be assuming the important details of the character's action. The player should be more explicit to help the DM not do that and so adjudication is easier and more fair. And the DM should be the one to call for the ability check (or not, if one is not needed). That's what the rules support, but people are used to playing certain ways because of the influence of other games like D&D 3.Xe and 4e and I gather they don't really rethink their approaches when changing to a new game system to see if they are still applicable.</p><p></p><p>Which is not to say they're wrong, as you say. Anyone can play how they like. The approach I take avoids certain problems without creating new ones or adding more time to the game and is what I have derived from the rules text. If we were talking about D&D 3.Xe or 4e, I'd have a different position.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7504577, member: 97077"] The weird thing about these discussions is that when the level of detail is actually parsed, we're talking like 4 to 10 words difference between asking to make a check where the DM has to take a guess at what the player wants to do and stating a goal and approach where the DM doesn't have to do that. If that. And those 4 to 10 words are basically transferring from the DM to the player. It's not actually [I]extra[/I] words. In other people's games, what I typically see is the player doesn't describe a goal and approach within the standard of reasonable specificity. Then the DM picks up the slack and assumes or establishes what the character does when narrating the result of the adventurer's action. If the player agrees, play continues. If the player doesn't agree with the assumption, there's an objection and that needs to be hashed out. That is a very common approach but gets it backward in my view. The DM should not be assuming the important details of the character's action. The player should be more explicit to help the DM not do that and so adjudication is easier and more fair. And the DM should be the one to call for the ability check (or not, if one is not needed). That's what the rules support, but people are used to playing certain ways because of the influence of other games like D&D 3.Xe and 4e and I gather they don't really rethink their approaches when changing to a new game system to see if they are still applicable. Which is not to say they're wrong, as you say. Anyone can play how they like. The approach I take avoids certain problems without creating new ones or adding more time to the game and is what I have derived from the rules text. If we were talking about D&D 3.Xe or 4e, I'd have a different position. [/QUOTE]
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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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