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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 7507012" data-attributes="member: 3400"><p>I can see the suggestion that there's genre/setting fidelity as a motive - particularly now that D&D is, in essence, its own genre in which the terms "alignment" and "paladin" actually have meaning.</p><p></p><p>But don't be too quick to dismiss the issue of balance, though that usually manifests in ways even more mechanically oriented than warlock/witch patrons and paladin oaths. So bear with me....</p><p></p><p>From a GM's perspective: Players are <strong>notorious</strong> for gaming systems as best they can and getting all the benefits they can without suffering consequences. Thankfully someone mentioned Champions upthread because that game system can provide hours of case studies in players eking out the points for their powers, squeezing them into power frameworks, taking advantage of roundups, and picking up the absolutely least restrictive disadvantages they can in order to pay for their abilities, getting the most benefit for the least number of points and the least amount of actual mechanical disadvantage in play. Code Against Killing, anyone - when you know darn well the campaign is going to be a 4-color/silver age style campaign and killing will be extremely low on everybody's priority? Sign me up!</p><p></p><p>Of course, this comes up plenty often in other games too like D&D and the careful attention people pay to putting their lowest stats where they will harm them the least. How many threads have we seen where a player who wants to swashbuckle lamented not doing as much damage as the hulking barbarian with a much heavier weapon wielded in two-hands? People want their stylistic choices without paying for the choices they make. But that can mess with game balance. Why be a high-strength fighter now if you can invest in a high Dex and not see your damage significantly reduced because you get to add Dex to damage? The balance point between the stats has been thrown off to something else and Dex has become the king stat - that might be OK in Champions where it costs 3x as much as Strength, but in D&D, they cost the same amount. </p><p></p><p>But some games are actually more interesting if you <strong>do</strong> have to make reasonable trade-offs, particularly ones that offer some nod to realism - like the much slower reload time of a crossbow, even if they aren't as good for a PC as a longbow. The issues at stake with paladin oaths and warlock patrons may not be as core as the mechanical balance issues, but it still represents a player trying to benefit from their choices while dodging the cost.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="billd91, post: 7507012, member: 3400"] I can see the suggestion that there's genre/setting fidelity as a motive - particularly now that D&D is, in essence, its own genre in which the terms "alignment" and "paladin" actually have meaning. But don't be too quick to dismiss the issue of balance, though that usually manifests in ways even more mechanically oriented than warlock/witch patrons and paladin oaths. So bear with me.... From a GM's perspective: Players are [b]notorious[/b] for gaming systems as best they can and getting all the benefits they can without suffering consequences. Thankfully someone mentioned Champions upthread because that game system can provide hours of case studies in players eking out the points for their powers, squeezing them into power frameworks, taking advantage of roundups, and picking up the absolutely least restrictive disadvantages they can in order to pay for their abilities, getting the most benefit for the least number of points and the least amount of actual mechanical disadvantage in play. Code Against Killing, anyone - when you know darn well the campaign is going to be a 4-color/silver age style campaign and killing will be extremely low on everybody's priority? Sign me up! Of course, this comes up plenty often in other games too like D&D and the careful attention people pay to putting their lowest stats where they will harm them the least. How many threads have we seen where a player who wants to swashbuckle lamented not doing as much damage as the hulking barbarian with a much heavier weapon wielded in two-hands? People want their stylistic choices without paying for the choices they make. But that can mess with game balance. Why be a high-strength fighter now if you can invest in a high Dex and not see your damage significantly reduced because you get to add Dex to damage? The balance point between the stats has been thrown off to something else and Dex has become the king stat - that might be OK in Champions where it costs 3x as much as Strength, but in D&D, they cost the same amount. But some games are actually more interesting if you [b]do[/b] have to make reasonable trade-offs, particularly ones that offer some nod to realism - like the much slower reload time of a crossbow, even if they aren't as good for a PC as a longbow. The issues at stake with paladin oaths and warlock patrons may not be as core as the mechanical balance issues, but it still represents a player trying to benefit from their choices while dodging the cost. [/QUOTE]
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