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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7507945" data-attributes="member: 6919838"><p>Folks may choose to use the word "force" however they want but your actions are not being forced by the Gm when they are the consequences of your choices.</p><p></p><p>I have been on the receiving end of the "kobolds" babies" situation more than a few times, but only ever once by any single GM. That is because when it was my "paladin" or "lawful good" he was bringing into question - i said in essence "as a devout follower of the teachings and faith my character should know what the most acceptable answer from those teaching to this quandry are - maybe even a few not the best but ten hail marys attonement options as well. So please tell me what my character has learned from the teachings that apply here." If it was a law question then it would be "well what is the common accepted legal solution? is it that we take them to a village and turn them over to someone? What is the lawful code saying about this case?"</p><p></p><p>That turns the situation back to the Gm to establish for his world and for his campaign what the viable answers are - not on me to guess. if his answer was "take the kobold babies back to town and abandon the quest for now" then my character would (usually - again there might be ten hail mary's options) follow that lead and the GM had to deal with those consequences. </p><p></p><p>This usually worked out to showing the Gm that those kinds of things and set pieces need to be woven in, a natural part of the story and not some surprise trap. </p><p></p><p>But as you reference, this is avoided fundamentally when the player and the GM at the outset discuss the specifics of those ties and obligations and relationships before taking the character into play.</p><p></p><p>Obviously, it would be not a good idea for say a pick-up random players FLGS meetup game to feature these kinds of challenges right off the bat - given the player and gm likely cannot have that discussion. if i were to run one of those, i would use pre-gens without the classes with baggage if for no other reason than to provide pre-gens that are most flexible to a random player's fun-flavors.</p><p></p><p>But for a campaign, no real reason these things should not be discussed and an agreement reached or a different road taken </p><p> before they get into play.</p><p></p><p>But then, some like their cake with eat-it-too icing over meaningful-choices-cream-pie and so they should each find the places that serve them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7507945, member: 6919838"] Folks may choose to use the word "force" however they want but your actions are not being forced by the Gm when they are the consequences of your choices. I have been on the receiving end of the "kobolds" babies" situation more than a few times, but only ever once by any single GM. That is because when it was my "paladin" or "lawful good" he was bringing into question - i said in essence "as a devout follower of the teachings and faith my character should know what the most acceptable answer from those teaching to this quandry are - maybe even a few not the best but ten hail marys attonement options as well. So please tell me what my character has learned from the teachings that apply here." If it was a law question then it would be "well what is the common accepted legal solution? is it that we take them to a village and turn them over to someone? What is the lawful code saying about this case?" That turns the situation back to the Gm to establish for his world and for his campaign what the viable answers are - not on me to guess. if his answer was "take the kobold babies back to town and abandon the quest for now" then my character would (usually - again there might be ten hail mary's options) follow that lead and the GM had to deal with those consequences. This usually worked out to showing the Gm that those kinds of things and set pieces need to be woven in, a natural part of the story and not some surprise trap. But as you reference, this is avoided fundamentally when the player and the GM at the outset discuss the specifics of those ties and obligations and relationships before taking the character into play. Obviously, it would be not a good idea for say a pick-up random players FLGS meetup game to feature these kinds of challenges right off the bat - given the player and gm likely cannot have that discussion. if i were to run one of those, i would use pre-gens without the classes with baggage if for no other reason than to provide pre-gens that are most flexible to a random player's fun-flavors. But for a campaign, no real reason these things should not be discussed and an agreement reached or a different road taken before they get into play. But then, some like their cake with eat-it-too icing over meaningful-choices-cream-pie and so they should each find the places that serve them. [/QUOTE]
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