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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7508228" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>This is what I'm calling out as nonsense - I mean you clearly don't think you're describing your game, and I know you're not describing my game, and I'm going to hazard a guess that you're not describing [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]'s game either - so whose game do you think you are describing?</p><p></p><p>Which goes back to my point - <em>is the best the GM can think of to challenge my Hells Angel's PC stealing my motorbike?</em> To me it just seems like incredibly weak GMing.</p><p></p><p>I know that sort of thing is basically compulsory in high level AD&D if wizard PCs are to be kept within some semblance of balance, but there are almost no RPGs out there as poorly mechanically balanced as high level AD&D. The motorcycle example came from a Vampire game, I think - but it could equally apply to any modern-setting RPG. When the players in my Marvel Heroic game wanted their PCs to get from DC to Tokyo they just narrated it as travelling in a Stark private jet (one of the PCs being War Machine) - it's so far in the "background" it's just taken for granted! There was plenty of action waiting for them in Tokyo without needing to worry about whether or not they suffer a random North Korean missile firing at their jet!</p><p></p><p>In my Classic Traveller game the PCs' starship can be put into jeopardy by a random encounter roll; or if they choose to stake it (eg by engaging in starship combat, which they did). But if they park it in orbit having succeeded in their check to enter the system without headaches, then it just orbits, and we resolve whatever hijinks are going on down on the surface.</p><p></p><p>Different RPGs use different methodologies to determine when adversity might occur to the PCs: random checks, as in Traveller and some OSR games; or GM framing choices as in MHRP and many contemporary games. The idea that in the latter sort of approach the GM can't find anything better to fasten on then the gadget or companion that s/he <em>knows</em> the players aren't interested in engaging with just blows my mind!</p><p></p><p>So how did I mininterpret your earlier post? You're apparently saying that the GM <em>has</em> to focus on stuff s/he <em>knows</em> the players aren't interested in focusing on because otherwise the game won't be fun for him/her. There are millions of people all over the world whose motorcycle or car has never been stolen - are you really saying you can't enjoy a Vampire game if a player stipulates in advance that his/her PC is, with respect to his/her motorcycle, one of those millions? To me that just sounds like lame GMing.</p><p></p><p>Exactly this.</p><p></p><p>It's not that the GM actively <em>needs</em> their to be a warlock hassled by a patron, or a vampire whose bike gets stolen, in order to enjoy the game. Rather, it seems to be that <em>s/he can't handle having a patron or bike in the game without messing with it</em>. Why not? As I said, to me it seems incredibly lame.</p><p></p><p>(And obviously has nothing to do with "consequences". The consequences of owning a bike are - my PC can get from A to B without walking! If having to walk or buy a subway ticket was going to be the ultimate consequence of a Vampire game, the game was lame from the get-go!)</p><p></p><p>EDIT: After posting this I've seen with respect to some of it I was ninja-ed by [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION].</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7508228, member: 42582"] This is what I'm calling out as nonsense - I mean you clearly don't think you're describing your game, and I know you're not describing my game, and I'm going to hazard a guess that you're not describing [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]'s game either - so whose game do you think you are describing? Which goes back to my point - [I]is the best the GM can think of to challenge my Hells Angel's PC stealing my motorbike?[/I] To me it just seems like incredibly weak GMing. I know that sort of thing is basically compulsory in high level AD&D if wizard PCs are to be kept within some semblance of balance, but there are almost no RPGs out there as poorly mechanically balanced as high level AD&D. The motorcycle example came from a Vampire game, I think - but it could equally apply to any modern-setting RPG. When the players in my Marvel Heroic game wanted their PCs to get from DC to Tokyo they just narrated it as travelling in a Stark private jet (one of the PCs being War Machine) - it's so far in the "background" it's just taken for granted! There was plenty of action waiting for them in Tokyo without needing to worry about whether or not they suffer a random North Korean missile firing at their jet! In my Classic Traveller game the PCs' starship can be put into jeopardy by a random encounter roll; or if they choose to stake it (eg by engaging in starship combat, which they did). But if they park it in orbit having succeeded in their check to enter the system without headaches, then it just orbits, and we resolve whatever hijinks are going on down on the surface. Different RPGs use different methodologies to determine when adversity might occur to the PCs: random checks, as in Traveller and some OSR games; or GM framing choices as in MHRP and many contemporary games. The idea that in the latter sort of approach the GM can't find anything better to fasten on then the gadget or companion that s/he [I]knows[/I] the players aren't interested in engaging with just blows my mind! So how did I mininterpret your earlier post? You're apparently saying that the GM [I]has[/I] to focus on stuff s/he [I]knows[/I] the players aren't interested in focusing on because otherwise the game won't be fun for him/her. There are millions of people all over the world whose motorcycle or car has never been stolen - are you really saying you can't enjoy a Vampire game if a player stipulates in advance that his/her PC is, with respect to his/her motorcycle, one of those millions? To me that just sounds like lame GMing. Exactly this. It's not that the GM actively [I]needs[/I] their to be a warlock hassled by a patron, or a vampire whose bike gets stolen, in order to enjoy the game. Rather, it seems to be that [I]s/he can't handle having a patron or bike in the game without messing with it[/I]. Why not? As I said, to me it seems incredibly lame. (And obviously has nothing to do with "consequences". The consequences of owning a bike are - my PC can get from A to B without walking! If having to walk or buy a subway ticket was going to be the ultimate consequence of a Vampire game, the game was lame from the get-go!) EDIT: After posting this I've seen with respect to some of it I was ninja-ed by [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]. [/QUOTE]
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