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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 7508655" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>I unsurprisingly disagree, and in no small part due to how you are just perpetuating your prescriptive flavor text fallacy here. You have not communicated well or demonstrated how the DM's enjoyment would be negatively impacted in a meaningful way. You have only stated the obvious: the DM would have less control over certain aspects of the player character and one less NPC. What has been lost seems comparatively marginal in comparison with what is gained. "I'm going to saw your hand off in a manner you would find painful, because the alternative is that I experience mild discomfort from being pricked by a needle." </p><p></p><p>The Sworn and Beholden section states that "A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being." A player backgrounding the prominence of their patron or its in-game control by the DM does not somehow erase that. The rest of the paragraph consists fundamentally flavor text suggestions meant for the player to consider the nature of the relationship. It does not even say in this section that the occasional services are determined by the DM. It's determined by their patron. "But the DM does serve as their patron!" Not necessarily. Working with the DM about the pact does not mean that the DM dictates the terms of that pact to the player. The player can easily determine the nature and frequency of those occasional services without requiring the DM to roleplay that patron as an in-game taskmaster. </p><p></p><p>"My archfey patron requires that I oppose both otherworldly abominations of nature and the opposing agendas of Queen Mab. As part of my pact, I can never wield cold iron nor can I knowingly speak falsehood. Everytime I increase in power [i.e., level up], I must prepare a new fey grove through which my patron can extend their influence in the world. And through this new arcane conduit, I shall gain my new power." </p><p></p><p>All of this could be established by the player (in cooperation with the DM) pre-play and without having the DM using the patron as an in-game sock-puppet. </p><p></p><p>You are not representing the argument of the other side accurately or fairly, Max. So what chance does my straw army have against this straw deity you have constructed? </p><p></p><p>And yet we have seen a fair handful of people in this thread fearmongering about players running amok, abusing power and avoiding obligations, if they had even a modicum of control over their warlock/patron relationship? And yet you want to speak of misplaced paranoia?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 7508655, member: 5142"] I unsurprisingly disagree, and in no small part due to how you are just perpetuating your prescriptive flavor text fallacy here. You have not communicated well or demonstrated how the DM's enjoyment would be negatively impacted in a meaningful way. You have only stated the obvious: the DM would have less control over certain aspects of the player character and one less NPC. What has been lost seems comparatively marginal in comparison with what is gained. "I'm going to saw your hand off in a manner you would find painful, because the alternative is that I experience mild discomfort from being pricked by a needle." The Sworn and Beholden section states that "A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being." A player backgrounding the prominence of their patron or its in-game control by the DM does not somehow erase that. The rest of the paragraph consists fundamentally flavor text suggestions meant for the player to consider the nature of the relationship. It does not even say in this section that the occasional services are determined by the DM. It's determined by their patron. "But the DM does serve as their patron!" Not necessarily. Working with the DM about the pact does not mean that the DM dictates the terms of that pact to the player. The player can easily determine the nature and frequency of those occasional services without requiring the DM to roleplay that patron as an in-game taskmaster. "My archfey patron requires that I oppose both otherworldly abominations of nature and the opposing agendas of Queen Mab. As part of my pact, I can never wield cold iron nor can I knowingly speak falsehood. Everytime I increase in power [i.e., level up], I must prepare a new fey grove through which my patron can extend their influence in the world. And through this new arcane conduit, I shall gain my new power." All of this could be established by the player (in cooperation with the DM) pre-play and without having the DM using the patron as an in-game sock-puppet. You are not representing the argument of the other side accurately or fairly, Max. So what chance does my straw army have against this straw deity you have constructed? And yet we have seen a fair handful of people in this thread fearmongering about players running amok, abusing power and avoiding obligations, if they had even a modicum of control over their warlock/patron relationship? And yet you want to speak of misplaced paranoia? [/QUOTE]
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