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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7509258" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>So if I am reading this correctly... it's either a playstyle choice or dependent upon the system. Either way there is nothing inherent in D&D specifically that gives the PC ownership and control of NPC's simply because they are part of a character's backstory. In fact earlier in the thread passages from D&D were quoted that make it obvious that all NPC's and setting elements are ultimately under the control of the DM. </p><p></p><p>Now I get in your particular playstyle, irregardless of system assumptions, you may allow players to dictate end-states for NPC's or declare NPC's and setting elements off limits from DM's but that's not the default stance for D&D. In D&D even if the PC does create these things... My PC's mother is a blacksmith in the town of Heretown... there is still nothing inherent in that creation that makes that NPC's actions, state at the end of the campaign or anything else under the explicit control of the player whose character is related to them as opposed to the DM. So since we are speaking to D&D I'll stick with my original assertion that the patron is a part of the DM's world... and thus if the DM wants he can determine the patron's actions himself, work with the player in determining the patron's actions, or even allow the player to determine the actions of the patron... more importantly the point is none of these answers is wrong or makes the DM a "bad" or poor DM regardless of which you personally prefer. </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Maybe there's just an overall breakdown in what you are communicating to me because (emphasis mine above) What this seems to imply to me is that in a cooperative game where we should all be contributing and building the fiction the player wants a specific story that they have already decided upon... thus my impression that it is engaging in one man theater where I as DM am here to provide scenery & background but am not allowed to explore what I would like too with the characters in the game. </p><p></p><p>If your DM, or you as the DM of your game, is/are cool with playing that role...that's great but for me I'm not there to run you through your particular story... I'm here to collaborate which means I may have my own questions, and various lenses I want to explore around the themes of your character as well. If I don't have the freedom to do that why don't you just write down the encounters, choices, issues, etc. you want to deal with, and I'll regurgitate them at the player appointed times. IMO this is just as bad as the DM who has already decided where the game is going to go and the players aren't given the opportunity to explore themes, and tropes through the lenses they want to. IMO neither should be in total control of this aspect of the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 7509258, member: 48965"] So if I am reading this correctly... it's either a playstyle choice or dependent upon the system. Either way there is nothing inherent in D&D specifically that gives the PC ownership and control of NPC's simply because they are part of a character's backstory. In fact earlier in the thread passages from D&D were quoted that make it obvious that all NPC's and setting elements are ultimately under the control of the DM. Now I get in your particular playstyle, irregardless of system assumptions, you may allow players to dictate end-states for NPC's or declare NPC's and setting elements off limits from DM's but that's not the default stance for D&D. In D&D even if the PC does create these things... My PC's mother is a blacksmith in the town of Heretown... there is still nothing inherent in that creation that makes that NPC's actions, state at the end of the campaign or anything else under the explicit control of the player whose character is related to them as opposed to the DM. So since we are speaking to D&D I'll stick with my original assertion that the patron is a part of the DM's world... and thus if the DM wants he can determine the patron's actions himself, work with the player in determining the patron's actions, or even allow the player to determine the actions of the patron... more importantly the point is none of these answers is wrong or makes the DM a "bad" or poor DM regardless of which you personally prefer. Maybe there's just an overall breakdown in what you are communicating to me because (emphasis mine above) What this seems to imply to me is that in a cooperative game where we should all be contributing and building the fiction the player wants a specific story that they have already decided upon... thus my impression that it is engaging in one man theater where I as DM am here to provide scenery & background but am not allowed to explore what I would like too with the characters in the game. If your DM, or you as the DM of your game, is/are cool with playing that role...that's great but for me I'm not there to run you through your particular story... I'm here to collaborate which means I may have my own questions, and various lenses I want to explore around the themes of your character as well. If I don't have the freedom to do that why don't you just write down the encounters, choices, issues, etc. you want to deal with, and I'll regurgitate them at the player appointed times. IMO this is just as bad as the DM who has already decided where the game is going to go and the players aren't given the opportunity to explore themes, and tropes through the lenses they want to. IMO neither should be in total control of this aspect of the game. [/QUOTE]
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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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