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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7511128" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>This last bit is exactly what I'm getting at - in both the examples above the character believes he/she is something (upright; stalwart) and then learns something new either about him/herself or about something that shaped him/her; and then has to deal with the feelings of shame or disappointment that follow.</p><p></p><p>How is this bad?</p><p></p><p>In the moment, before the added knowledge is revealed, the successful hit is the focus of the game. Then, after the reveal, the focus changes to one or more of a) get your father revived, if the setting allows for such; b) find whoever ordered the hit and return the favour; c) find out why the hit was ordered - just what was dear old Dad up to anyway, to put him in my crosshairs - and follow up on that. And on top of all of this there's likely* going to be some serious remorse, possibly even leading to a change of career (in-game, change of class or alignment). Tons of stuff there to mine for both role-playing the character and furthering the campaign!</p><p></p><p>* - assuming a reasonable previous relationship with your father; not always a given.</p><p></p><p>Ah...it just struck me. You're looking at the means - the fiction established en route to achieving the goal, where I'm also looking at the ends - was the goal achieved.</p><p></p><p>A sponsor's heel turn does not invalidate the players' contributions, though. How can it? The players (I assume!) didn't come up with the sponsor's personality or motivations or whatever; that's all GM-side stuff so there's no player contributions to invalidate there. The players/PCs found and returned the McGuffin, and developed their characters along the way and also wrote the story of that particular adventure; those contributions aren't invalidated by the sponsor then turning on them. In fact, the sponsor turning on them IMO gives a fine reason to continue the story.</p><p></p><p>See above re people learning things about themselves and-or their environment.</p><p></p><p>Here it depends on what if anything has already been established about dear old Dad. If either in the player's character history or the GM's notes (we all know how much you love those! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> ) Dad's been established as a peaceful stay-at-home guy, then suddenly turning him to a serial killer is going to take some real serious justification to not come off as anything but badly done. But if Dad's been left as a blank slate - the PC talks about 'dear old Dad' all the time but neither she nor the GM ever define what dear old Dad's all about - then making him a serial killer is in play, the same as would be making him a simple farmer or the deposed King of Anaqara.</p><p></p><p>You (and thus we) will likely never know now, but I'd have been curious to see what the GM had in mind going forward with that one.</p><p></p><p>Lanefan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7511128, member: 29398"] This last bit is exactly what I'm getting at - in both the examples above the character believes he/she is something (upright; stalwart) and then learns something new either about him/herself or about something that shaped him/her; and then has to deal with the feelings of shame or disappointment that follow. How is this bad? In the moment, before the added knowledge is revealed, the successful hit is the focus of the game. Then, after the reveal, the focus changes to one or more of a) get your father revived, if the setting allows for such; b) find whoever ordered the hit and return the favour; c) find out why the hit was ordered - just what was dear old Dad up to anyway, to put him in my crosshairs - and follow up on that. And on top of all of this there's likely* going to be some serious remorse, possibly even leading to a change of career (in-game, change of class or alignment). Tons of stuff there to mine for both role-playing the character and furthering the campaign! * - assuming a reasonable previous relationship with your father; not always a given. Ah...it just struck me. You're looking at the means - the fiction established en route to achieving the goal, where I'm also looking at the ends - was the goal achieved. A sponsor's heel turn does not invalidate the players' contributions, though. How can it? The players (I assume!) didn't come up with the sponsor's personality or motivations or whatever; that's all GM-side stuff so there's no player contributions to invalidate there. The players/PCs found and returned the McGuffin, and developed their characters along the way and also wrote the story of that particular adventure; those contributions aren't invalidated by the sponsor then turning on them. In fact, the sponsor turning on them IMO gives a fine reason to continue the story. See above re people learning things about themselves and-or their environment. Here it depends on what if anything has already been established about dear old Dad. If either in the player's character history or the GM's notes (we all know how much you love those! :) ) Dad's been established as a peaceful stay-at-home guy, then suddenly turning him to a serial killer is going to take some real serious justification to not come off as anything but badly done. But if Dad's been left as a blank slate - the PC talks about 'dear old Dad' all the time but neither she nor the GM ever define what dear old Dad's all about - then making him a serial killer is in play, the same as would be making him a simple farmer or the deposed King of Anaqara. You (and thus we) will likely never know now, but I'd have been curious to see what the GM had in mind going forward with that one. Lanefan [/QUOTE]
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