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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 7511145" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>True, but meta-knowledge almost invariably exists. Players may know the GM. The players may know the setting. </p><p></p><p>I disagree. But if the player of a cleric whose primary contribution to the setting is a deity and a dwarf clan is the most knowledgeable person of the GM's setting, then something is probably wrong with the GM. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>And I still think that you are engaging in gross hyperbole. </p><p></p><p>That's a setting issue and not a cleric class issue that stems from any falsely imagined "deviations" to the cleric class. I do not have to be playing a cleric to find that an issue in Eberron. The cleric, however, is not changing; it plays the same. </p><p></p><p>The 3e cleric description admits that the campaign presence of deities vary, that temples/churches/cults may be the primary motivations for cleric adventures, and that clerics are not even necessarily serving deities but rather philosophies or alignment. But if we believe that flavor text ist über alles, then we must regard Forgotten Realms as an exception and rules-break from D&D clerics since the 3e PHB flavor text for clerics establishes Pelor as the norm for humans. </p><p></p><p>But arguing that somehow Eberron creates a rules exception for clerics or changes the class due to the nature of the setting seems antithetical to the nature of D&D and its lifelong embrace of homebrew settings. It reeks of OneTrueWayism when it comes to the cleric. It's a narrow reading of the D&D cleric class that conveniently ignores the wide berth that D&D permits for clerics, divine absence/presence, and the relationship between clerics and their deity. If Eberron is an "exception," there are so many "exceptions" that it is practically a coequal norm. There are so many settings out there, official or 3pp, and I never once had anyone make the bogus claim that the setting somehow changed the cleric class or created an exception just because the setting did something so basic as define how deities exist and express themselves in the setting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 7511145, member: 5142"] True, but meta-knowledge almost invariably exists. Players may know the GM. The players may know the setting. I disagree. But if the player of a cleric whose primary contribution to the setting is a deity and a dwarf clan is the most knowledgeable person of the GM's setting, then something is probably wrong with the GM. ;) And I still think that you are engaging in gross hyperbole. That's a setting issue and not a cleric class issue that stems from any falsely imagined "deviations" to the cleric class. I do not have to be playing a cleric to find that an issue in Eberron. The cleric, however, is not changing; it plays the same. The 3e cleric description admits that the campaign presence of deities vary, that temples/churches/cults may be the primary motivations for cleric adventures, and that clerics are not even necessarily serving deities but rather philosophies or alignment. But if we believe that flavor text ist über alles, then we must regard Forgotten Realms as an exception and rules-break from D&D clerics since the 3e PHB flavor text for clerics establishes Pelor as the norm for humans. But arguing that somehow Eberron creates a rules exception for clerics or changes the class due to the nature of the setting seems antithetical to the nature of D&D and its lifelong embrace of homebrew settings. It reeks of OneTrueWayism when it comes to the cleric. It's a narrow reading of the D&D cleric class that conveniently ignores the wide berth that D&D permits for clerics, divine absence/presence, and the relationship between clerics and their deity. If Eberron is an "exception," there are so many "exceptions" that it is practically a coequal norm. There are so many settings out there, official or 3pp, and I never once had anyone make the bogus claim that the setting somehow changed the cleric class or created an exception just because the setting did something so basic as define how deities exist and express themselves in the setting. [/QUOTE]
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