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What Games do you think are Neotrad?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9313982" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>Ok that one bit at the beginning kind of clarifies the way to define NeoTrad more than like, bazillions of words elsewhere - what is the game about? And they give three examples:</p><p></p><p>1) Is it about what happens to the world.</p><p></p><p>2) Is it about how long your characters survive/how powerful they become.</p><p></p><p>3) Is it about what happens to your characters, and what they want/do.</p><p></p><p>Notice is 3 is different from 2.</p><p></p><p>All games pretty much have some of elements of all three but I do think it's fair to say that most games have one they strongly favour - or even if they don't - that kind of rules them out as NeoTrad, because NeoTrad favours 3.</p><p></p><p>And I think what this reveals is that, as a playstyle, NeoTrad is basically older than the internet - it's not exactly how I was taught to play D&D by my second cousin in 1989, but it's pretty close. Hell, if you look at Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads!, the DM advice book for Cyberpunk 2020, published by Mike Pondsmith in 1994, that is absolutely focused on 3. Likewise, there used to a wonderful website with lengthy and detailed accounts of a HERO campaign run at some Midwestern university over like 3-5 years in the mid-late '80s, and absolutely the focus was on 3.</p><p></p><p>And I think what we can see is that, initially, it's more that this is a thing that rules allow, rather than rules are actively designed to support. The original oWoD VtM games are divided between a focus on 1 & 3, with little interest in 2 (not none - little). The campaigns for those though - they're rock-sold 1. They don't give a toss about the PCs. They're absolutely uncaring to the PCs, who are essentially almost bystanders.</p><p></p><p>I'm trying to think of the first adventure I read that really tried to get the PCs involved on a personal level, not just with hooks. It has to be early '90s or something? By the late '90s, we were seeing games which were definitely focused very much on 3 - The Marvel one with the cards (MSHAG?) for example.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 9313982, member: 18"] Ok that one bit at the beginning kind of clarifies the way to define NeoTrad more than like, bazillions of words elsewhere - what is the game about? And they give three examples: 1) Is it about what happens to the world. 2) Is it about how long your characters survive/how powerful they become. 3) Is it about what happens to your characters, and what they want/do. Notice is 3 is different from 2. All games pretty much have some of elements of all three but I do think it's fair to say that most games have one they strongly favour - or even if they don't - that kind of rules them out as NeoTrad, because NeoTrad favours 3. And I think what this reveals is that, as a playstyle, NeoTrad is basically older than the internet - it's not exactly how I was taught to play D&D by my second cousin in 1989, but it's pretty close. Hell, if you look at Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads!, the DM advice book for Cyberpunk 2020, published by Mike Pondsmith in 1994, that is absolutely focused on 3. Likewise, there used to a wonderful website with lengthy and detailed accounts of a HERO campaign run at some Midwestern university over like 3-5 years in the mid-late '80s, and absolutely the focus was on 3. And I think what we can see is that, initially, it's more that this is a thing that rules allow, rather than rules are actively designed to support. The original oWoD VtM games are divided between a focus on 1 & 3, with little interest in 2 (not none - little). The campaigns for those though - they're rock-sold 1. They don't give a toss about the PCs. They're absolutely uncaring to the PCs, who are essentially almost bystanders. I'm trying to think of the first adventure I read that really tried to get the PCs involved on a personal level, not just with hooks. It has to be early '90s or something? By the late '90s, we were seeing games which were definitely focused very much on 3 - The Marvel one with the cards (MSHAG?) for example. [/QUOTE]
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