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What Games do you think are Neotrad?
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<blockquote data-quote="gorice" data-source="post: 9315710" data-attributes="member: 7032863"><p>The distinction I (and I think [USER=15538]@pawsplay[/USER] , but I don't want to put words in their mouth) have been trying to make is between functional and superfluous detail. The Riddle of Steel is a game about driven people staking it all on vicious sword fights, and it has detailed and bloody rules for fighting with swords. Those crunchy fighting rules might be good or bad, but they're not there out of some obsession with completeness. OK, the game probably didn't need you to enter your character's height and weight, but that's the kind of colour that was <em>de rigour</em> at the time.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Interestingly, the Apocalypse World rulebook has examples of play that do the same thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I should have been more precise previously. I don't mean that <em>any</em> force means you're not playing an RPG any more; I mean that <em>all</em> force means you're not playing anymore. I've sat through sessions like that, and let me tell you, I wasn't playing. So, in a situation where the system doesn't have some kind of reliable say, no, there is no game anymore. I don't think all trad play is 'fake' play, but really bad and dysfunctional trad collapses into pure fiat without even players' authority over their characters being respected.</p><p></p><p></p><p>One criticism I've heard about BitD is that players can use stress to pick-and-choose the sort of consequences their characters suffer, preventing the resolution system from offering decisive outcomes. I'm yet to play BitD, so I can't comment on how accurate this is. I think it's an example of how the specifics of a system in play are more important than how people choose to categorise it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>To reiterate: I'm yet to see any evidence that neotrad is a single, coherent playstyle, let alone something that fits neatly into one of the old 'agenda' buckets. I am once again asking that people look to the specifics of what players and groups enjoy and are trying to achieve.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="gorice, post: 9315710, member: 7032863"] The distinction I (and I think [USER=15538]@pawsplay[/USER] , but I don't want to put words in their mouth) have been trying to make is between functional and superfluous detail. The Riddle of Steel is a game about driven people staking it all on vicious sword fights, and it has detailed and bloody rules for fighting with swords. Those crunchy fighting rules might be good or bad, but they're not there out of some obsession with completeness. OK, the game probably didn't need you to enter your character's height and weight, but that's the kind of colour that was [I]de rigour[/I] at the time. Interestingly, the Apocalypse World rulebook has examples of play that do the same thing. I should have been more precise previously. I don't mean that [I]any[/I] force means you're not playing an RPG any more; I mean that [I]all[/I] force means you're not playing anymore. I've sat through sessions like that, and let me tell you, I wasn't playing. So, in a situation where the system doesn't have some kind of reliable say, no, there is no game anymore. I don't think all trad play is 'fake' play, but really bad and dysfunctional trad collapses into pure fiat without even players' authority over their characters being respected. One criticism I've heard about BitD is that players can use stress to pick-and-choose the sort of consequences their characters suffer, preventing the resolution system from offering decisive outcomes. I'm yet to play BitD, so I can't comment on how accurate this is. I think it's an example of how the specifics of a system in play are more important than how people choose to categorise it. To reiterate: I'm yet to see any evidence that neotrad is a single, coherent playstyle, let alone something that fits neatly into one of the old 'agenda' buckets. I am once again asking that people look to the specifics of what players and groups enjoy and are trying to achieve. [/QUOTE]
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