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<blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 9317810" data-attributes="member: 6801252"><p>So I think a big recurring theme here is that</p><p></p><p>Aside from the implicitly insulting tone, and dismissive mien, and regardless of how VTM in the particular presented it, the reality is that play groups tend to want to use the rules-- just not all the rules, and the unused rules aren't the same between play groups.</p><p></p><p>For a VTM related example-- my group plays Vampire the Requiem 2e, I've seen people talk about not liking and not using the investigation system as presented in the base Chronicles gameline (and to be clear, its not presented in the VTR book) but my group really enjoys it, on the flipside I know people who swear on the group beats rule that later gamelines made default, but I wouldn't use that for this game since the individualized progression and lack of balance is part of the fun. Within this context the relationship of OC and systems is pretty self-evident, is that the systems are toolboxes, and you use the tools that you feel are useful to your ends.</p><p></p><p>That said, to be clear, I think this is a tough sale for you, because the games you now prefer were built on the premise that closed rule systems are more coherent and more functional. Its part of their central ethos, their core aesthetic values, its arguably (Edwards does so for example) the single thing that defines the movement-- I might as well be explaining Post-Modernist art to a Modernist while they tell me that the things Modernism does is supposed to be the point of a piece of art, or if you prefer, Romanticism to a Modernist while they explain that Modernism fixes the problems of Romanticism.</p><p></p><p>I also wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Brennan's self-assessment of his limitations, or his comfort level in handling that part of the game, having handled that part of the game improvisationally for years before getting into TTRPGs, I'd never seen anyone do it especially well, at least not if any degree of 'Step On Up' in Forge terms, is to be present.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The-Magic-Sword, post: 9317810, member: 6801252"] So I think a big recurring theme here is that Aside from the implicitly insulting tone, and dismissive mien, and regardless of how VTM in the particular presented it, the reality is that play groups tend to want to use the rules-- just not all the rules, and the unused rules aren't the same between play groups. For a VTM related example-- my group plays Vampire the Requiem 2e, I've seen people talk about not liking and not using the investigation system as presented in the base Chronicles gameline (and to be clear, its not presented in the VTR book) but my group really enjoys it, on the flipside I know people who swear on the group beats rule that later gamelines made default, but I wouldn't use that for this game since the individualized progression and lack of balance is part of the fun. Within this context the relationship of OC and systems is pretty self-evident, is that the systems are toolboxes, and you use the tools that you feel are useful to your ends. That said, to be clear, I think this is a tough sale for you, because the games you now prefer were built on the premise that closed rule systems are more coherent and more functional. Its part of their central ethos, their core aesthetic values, its arguably (Edwards does so for example) the single thing that defines the movement-- I might as well be explaining Post-Modernist art to a Modernist while they tell me that the things Modernism does is supposed to be the point of a piece of art, or if you prefer, Romanticism to a Modernist while they explain that Modernism fixes the problems of Romanticism. I also wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Brennan's self-assessment of his limitations, or his comfort level in handling that part of the game, having handled that part of the game improvisationally for years before getting into TTRPGs, I'd never seen anyone do it especially well, at least not if any degree of 'Step On Up' in Forge terms, is to be present. [/QUOTE]
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