Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What happened to the punk aesthetic in D&D?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6995623" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>I honestly don't think that's a big part of it. Balance isn't a top priority of 5e. 4e proved you could have balanced D&D, but even then WotC would put something out, and it'd have to be errata'd within months of the OP crowd getting ahold of it. But, official product does seem preferred (and, really, even in the most variant-prone times, new official material generated excitement). Maybe it's just the veneer of officialdom, maybe the assumption that it'll be 'better' or truer to D&D because it's professionally produced by the IP holder.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Nod. D&D, like the wargames it grew out of, started off very open to variants and being played differently, not just from one group or DM to another, but from one scenario to another. OD&D was actually 3 different games. It was D&D. It was Chainmail when you were fighting. It was Wilderness Survival when you were wandering around in the woods. AD&D played quite differently when exploring vs fighting in a dungeon vs traveling & fighting out in the open. Modules routinely called out special rules for the creatures, traps, magic, & situations found in them.</p><p></p><p>3e, while wide open to 3pp product, seemed to be the nadir of DM Empowerment and homebrew. There was so much official and OGL material, why bother? And, players were feeling very empowered to create just the character they wanted, without having to come to the DM for some novel rule/ruling to make it work ('just' approval of this or that non-Core option).</p><p></p><p>1. Convenience.</p><p>2. Brand. </p><p>3. Consistency. </p><p>4. Emotional support.</p><p>5. Moar Product. </p><p></p><p>I am sympathetic to all of these claims (even (4)).</p></blockquote><p>You didn't spin it (4) too favorably, though. 5e's made a commitment to healing the rift of the edition war and being D&D for everyone who ever loved D&D. (Note: not everyone, not everyone who ever played D&D, but for all us devoted fans of each past edition - or multiple past editions, for us long-timers.) </p><p></p><p>I think you kinda are. ;P </p><p>To a certain extent, the only way to Empower the DM is to make DMing hard on him. There's a lot of reasons. A simple/clear/complete/functional system doesn't need rulings, so if you habitually play in such a system, your players are not habituated to accepting rulings as a matter of course. They can rules-lawyer from a clear position. A complicated/vague/clunky system, OTOH, requires an active hand from the DM to keep it running smoothly, so players learn to accept (even appreciate) frequent rulings and exceptions. (They can still rules-lawyer if they want, for or against what the rules say, or alternate interpretatuions of same, it's just a more involved process.) Similarly, if it's hard to DM, the rebut "if you don't like it, run your own campaign," has much sharper teeth. DMs are fewer and in a stronger bargaining position when forging that informal 'social contract,' the harder it is to DM, let alone do it well.</p><p></p><p>I agree with this last bit. ;P</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I totally don't see it. Jazz is doing it your own way. Punk is mohawks and safety-pin piercings.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6995623, member: 996"] I honestly don't think that's a big part of it. Balance isn't a top priority of 5e. 4e proved you could have balanced D&D, but even then WotC would put something out, and it'd have to be errata'd within months of the OP crowd getting ahold of it. But, official product does seem preferred (and, really, even in the most variant-prone times, new official material generated excitement). Maybe it's just the veneer of officialdom, maybe the assumption that it'll be 'better' or truer to D&D because it's professionally produced by the IP holder. Nod. D&D, like the wargames it grew out of, started off very open to variants and being played differently, not just from one group or DM to another, but from one scenario to another. OD&D was actually 3 different games. It was D&D. It was Chainmail when you were fighting. It was Wilderness Survival when you were wandering around in the woods. AD&D played quite differently when exploring vs fighting in a dungeon vs traveling & fighting out in the open. Modules routinely called out special rules for the creatures, traps, magic, & situations found in them. 3e, while wide open to 3pp product, seemed to be the nadir of DM Empowerment and homebrew. There was so much official and OGL material, why bother? And, players were feeling very empowered to create just the character they wanted, without having to come to the DM for some novel rule/ruling to make it work ('just' approval of this or that non-Core option). 1. Convenience. 2. Brand. 3. Consistency. 4. Emotional support. 5. Moar Product. I am sympathetic to all of these claims (even (4)). [/quote]You didn't spin it (4) too favorably, though. 5e's made a commitment to healing the rift of the edition war and being D&D for everyone who ever loved D&D. (Note: not everyone, not everyone who ever played D&D, but for all us devoted fans of each past edition - or multiple past editions, for us long-timers.) I think you kinda are. ;P To a certain extent, the only way to Empower the DM is to make DMing hard on him. There's a lot of reasons. A simple/clear/complete/functional system doesn't need rulings, so if you habitually play in such a system, your players are not habituated to accepting rulings as a matter of course. They can rules-lawyer from a clear position. A complicated/vague/clunky system, OTOH, requires an active hand from the DM to keep it running smoothly, so players learn to accept (even appreciate) frequent rulings and exceptions. (They can still rules-lawyer if they want, for or against what the rules say, or alternate interpretatuions of same, it's just a more involved process.) Similarly, if it's hard to DM, the rebut "if you don't like it, run your own campaign," has much sharper teeth. DMs are fewer and in a stronger bargaining position when forging that informal 'social contract,' the harder it is to DM, let alone do it well. I agree with this last bit. ;P Yeah, I totally don't see it. Jazz is doing it your own way. Punk is mohawks and safety-pin piercings. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What happened to the punk aesthetic in D&D?
Top