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What happened to the punk aesthetic in D&D?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 6995687" data-attributes="member: 5100"><p>I'll start off by saying that I think the DIY attitude is something that's key to the D&D identity. If the PHB was integrated with a single setting, say, using a model like Shadowrun*, I probably wouldn't play it. That's just not D&D. It wouldn't matter which setting; I'm just not interested in a fantasy system tightly coupled to a setting. More than any other genre, other than maybe sci-fi, fantasy is about unique worlds.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I had literal reams of home brew material for AD&D, plus several Role Aids products and Dragon Magazines. I still have a couple folders of home brew and six magazine boxes (about 2 linear feet) full of Dragon.</p><p></p><p>However.... I have no interest** in DM Guild material or non-WotC material. More on that, in a second.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm a BECMI/AD&D grognard, too. Even several years into the 2E run, I was "officially" running 1E AD&D with cherries picked from 2E. Specifically, I thought (and still think) TWF Rangers were stupid, so you played 1E Rangers with 2E Ranger stealth. On the other hand, Priests completely replaced the 1E Cleric. Most expansions worked with either edition and, by the time I took a break from D&D, I think we were probably more playing 2E with cherries picked from 1E. Regardless, it was almost totally transparent and clearly the same game.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think there are a number of factors in play. A certain amount of it comes from aspects of 3E and some of it is just being in a different phase of life.</p><p></p><p>1) The SRD boom created a lot of white noise. In 1E it wasn't always a win, but it was easy to differentiate companies and determine which ones I liked. In 3E, there were just too many third parties to sort through. Trying to read reviews online didn't help because some folks loved things I found completely unusable, so I could try to vet the reviewers or just wing it. Blech. DM Guild looks like more of the same glut. I'm sure there's some good stuff, but I just don't care enough to bother.</p><p></p><p>2) 3E moved a ton of the rules "in front of the screen". It empowered the players tremendously. Regardless of whether that was right or wrong, it does impact house rules. Even players who "grew up" with AD&D started getting into dark nooks and crannies that they hadn't previously been checking. Having even one rules-lawyer turned every potential house rule into a potential argument or intentional abuse with a "nuh uh, no take backs". (Really, this seems to be more symptomatic of people who started with 3E, but not exclusive or absolute.)</p><p></p><p>3) 3E was not friendly to rules tweaks. The math was wound so tight that they could cascade in weird ways. Change the wrong thing, and the whole house of cards can come down (armor as DR, from freaking <em>Unearthed Arcana</em> taught me that). Not worth puttering.</p><p></p><p>4) I have four more kids now than I did when 3E was released. They bring a lot of activity, especially at the middle and high school level. Add in full time job and volunteer activities, I don't have much time to either search out new vendors or to make my own stuff.</p><p></p><p>My time available is my own. I think the tone change with 3E endures, though. I hope to see it shift back to AD&D tone, but we'll see. Ironically, it's the indie game market that may be the home of that sort of thing. I've been eying Fate as being simple enough to kitbash in my limited time.</p><p></p><p>* I could have used multiple examples, but Shadowrun was the first that popped into my head. For those unaware, SR has a single core book that gives full character creation/advancement rules, a good amount of setting, combat and specialty (rigging, magic, decking/hacking, cyberware) rules, and some critters. There are splat books that expand pretty much everything, including the setting.</p><p></p><p>** OK. Not zero interest, just minimal interest.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercule, post: 6995687, member: 5100"] I'll start off by saying that I think the DIY attitude is something that's key to the D&D identity. If the PHB was integrated with a single setting, say, using a model like Shadowrun*, I probably wouldn't play it. That's just not D&D. It wouldn't matter which setting; I'm just not interested in a fantasy system tightly coupled to a setting. More than any other genre, other than maybe sci-fi, fantasy is about unique worlds. I had literal reams of home brew material for AD&D, plus several Role Aids products and Dragon Magazines. I still have a couple folders of home brew and six magazine boxes (about 2 linear feet) full of Dragon. However.... I have no interest** in DM Guild material or non-WotC material. More on that, in a second. I'm a BECMI/AD&D grognard, too. Even several years into the 2E run, I was "officially" running 1E AD&D with cherries picked from 2E. Specifically, I thought (and still think) TWF Rangers were stupid, so you played 1E Rangers with 2E Ranger stealth. On the other hand, Priests completely replaced the 1E Cleric. Most expansions worked with either edition and, by the time I took a break from D&D, I think we were probably more playing 2E with cherries picked from 1E. Regardless, it was almost totally transparent and clearly the same game. I think there are a number of factors in play. A certain amount of it comes from aspects of 3E and some of it is just being in a different phase of life. 1) The SRD boom created a lot of white noise. In 1E it wasn't always a win, but it was easy to differentiate companies and determine which ones I liked. In 3E, there were just too many third parties to sort through. Trying to read reviews online didn't help because some folks loved things I found completely unusable, so I could try to vet the reviewers or just wing it. Blech. DM Guild looks like more of the same glut. I'm sure there's some good stuff, but I just don't care enough to bother. 2) 3E moved a ton of the rules "in front of the screen". It empowered the players tremendously. Regardless of whether that was right or wrong, it does impact house rules. Even players who "grew up" with AD&D started getting into dark nooks and crannies that they hadn't previously been checking. Having even one rules-lawyer turned every potential house rule into a potential argument or intentional abuse with a "nuh uh, no take backs". (Really, this seems to be more symptomatic of people who started with 3E, but not exclusive or absolute.) 3) 3E was not friendly to rules tweaks. The math was wound so tight that they could cascade in weird ways. Change the wrong thing, and the whole house of cards can come down (armor as DR, from freaking [I]Unearthed Arcana[/I] taught me that). Not worth puttering. 4) I have four more kids now than I did when 3E was released. They bring a lot of activity, especially at the middle and high school level. Add in full time job and volunteer activities, I don't have much time to either search out new vendors or to make my own stuff. My time available is my own. I think the tone change with 3E endures, though. I hope to see it shift back to AD&D tone, but we'll see. Ironically, it's the indie game market that may be the home of that sort of thing. I've been eying Fate as being simple enough to kitbash in my limited time. * I could have used multiple examples, but Shadowrun was the first that popped into my head. For those unaware, SR has a single core book that gives full character creation/advancement rules, a good amount of setting, combat and specialty (rigging, magic, decking/hacking, cyberware) rules, and some critters. There are splat books that expand pretty much everything, including the setting. ** OK. Not zero interest, just minimal interest. [/QUOTE]
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