Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
Meta - Forums About Forums
Archive-threads
What is "grim and gritty" and "low magic" anyway?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="kamosa" data-source="post: 1420044" data-attributes="member: 1037"><p>I would agree that high magic can fall flat, and can go over the top. The reason I come out so strong on this is that unlike high fantasy, no one ever seems to say that low magic can be bad. </p><p></p><p>While I would agree that the problems are tied to certain GM's. I'd also say the the style is also tied in many cases to those same GM's.</p><p></p><p></p><p> The GM's I've ranted against could never understand why we were bored. Would never even consider that they were running a game that just wasn't interesting. Didn't understand that they were using these terms as a way to crush the players. </p><p></p><p>They'd come out to boards like this and get reaffirmed that they were doing the right thing. That low level is the ultimate style. That we were just whiny players. No one ever said to them that the game is supposed to be fun for everyone not just the GM. In reality they were on an extended ego trip and games would end after a few sessions.</p><p></p><p>GM's go through several stages as they learn the game. First they go over the top. Everything is ok, the players are never challenged and the treasure is ridculous. The game falls flat, becomes a joke and the GM suddenly is faced with god like PC's that they can't challenge.</p><p></p><p>But then, many react back and take everything away. Call it the second stage of learning to be a GM. The problem is that many in this stage never realise that this is just as big a problem to the game as too high magic. They lean on the players and take away ability after ability until all you can do is literally sit at the table with folded arms and listen to them prattle on. </p><p></p><p>Hey, in their mind the problem is solved. The players aren't breaking the game and they are getting out their story. In discussions around the table I've called this subsituting low level with low magic. IE, you can't keep the players at low levels, so you take away abilities until they are essentially still low level. </p><p></p><p>If you don't want a world with Magic shops and insta raise dead potioin despensers modeled on soda machines, good for you. If you want tough encounters, good. I railed for this last week. But be honest with yourself as well. Are you nerfing teleport for flavor reasons, or because you'd rather be playing at low levels?</p><p></p><p>Disclaimer: broad strokes, doesn't apply to your game, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kamosa, post: 1420044, member: 1037"] I would agree that high magic can fall flat, and can go over the top. The reason I come out so strong on this is that unlike high fantasy, no one ever seems to say that low magic can be bad. While I would agree that the problems are tied to certain GM's. I'd also say the the style is also tied in many cases to those same GM's. The GM's I've ranted against could never understand why we were bored. Would never even consider that they were running a game that just wasn't interesting. Didn't understand that they were using these terms as a way to crush the players. They'd come out to boards like this and get reaffirmed that they were doing the right thing. That low level is the ultimate style. That we were just whiny players. No one ever said to them that the game is supposed to be fun for everyone not just the GM. In reality they were on an extended ego trip and games would end after a few sessions. GM's go through several stages as they learn the game. First they go over the top. Everything is ok, the players are never challenged and the treasure is ridculous. The game falls flat, becomes a joke and the GM suddenly is faced with god like PC's that they can't challenge. But then, many react back and take everything away. Call it the second stage of learning to be a GM. The problem is that many in this stage never realise that this is just as big a problem to the game as too high magic. They lean on the players and take away ability after ability until all you can do is literally sit at the table with folded arms and listen to them prattle on. Hey, in their mind the problem is solved. The players aren't breaking the game and they are getting out their story. In discussions around the table I've called this subsituting low level with low magic. IE, you can't keep the players at low levels, so you take away abilities until they are essentially still low level. If you don't want a world with Magic shops and insta raise dead potioin despensers modeled on soda machines, good for you. If you want tough encounters, good. I railed for this last week. But be honest with yourself as well. Are you nerfing teleport for flavor reasons, or because you'd rather be playing at low levels? Disclaimer: broad strokes, doesn't apply to your game, etc. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
Meta - Forums About Forums
Archive-threads
What is "grim and gritty" and "low magic" anyway?
Top