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What is "grim and gritty" and "low magic" anyway?
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<blockquote data-quote="Bendris Noulg" data-source="post: 1420920" data-attributes="member: 6398"><p>Y'know, I've no idea. Two of my players were new to the game when they signed on (app. 5 years ago) and both chose non-casters I think for the purpose of simplicity. When we converted to d20, they chose not to deviate from this (although one switched from Fighter to Fighter/Rogue/Ranger). On top, Divine Casters (Druids and Shaman from the Primal Codex) don't have the same pull-back as Arcane Casters (essentially, I play up the RP-side of religion, faith, duty, etc., while leaving them mostly unchanged mechanically), and they aren't popular choices either. I think we just have similar tastes in fantasy, with D&D magic distracting from it rather than contributing.</p><p> </p><p>That said, I'll bring it up in pre-game tomorrow.</p><p> </p><p>As for it improving the game, I'm going to say yes, but only in practice (that is to say, it works with our group at our table). Characters seem more grounded in reality (i.e., more like "real people" in a fantasy setting), which likely makes them easier for the group to relate to. I will say that there are other games locally and my players know it; While my wife remaining faithful is half-expected ( <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> ), the fact that the other two have remained with us despite other options would seem to be a good sign that I'm doing <em>something</em> right.</p><p> </p><p>Actually, the rules for spellcasters are converted to d20 from the 2E Player's Option: Spells & Magic. It took <em>some</em> tweaking for d20, but not that incredibly difficult. (The slapped-together version for ESD conversion is on my website, while the "official Aedon model" should be up next week... The later will be a bit more detailed and presented cleaner, but the ESD Conversion Agreement states that conversions must be straight conversions, not "how I would have done it", so I did just that...)</p><p> </p><p>Ah, this is more of an edition issue...</p><p> </p><p>With 1E/2E, we were presented with all these tools and basically told, "do as you wish." High Magic, ala Planescape, or Low Magic, ala early FR, or whatever. So I did. It's only now, with 3E, that someone decided to say, "this is how the game is balanced and therefore how it is played". Personally, I think it's a load of crap (I half-think someone at WotC was picked on for being a Munchkin during his childhood and thus used 3E as an instrument of vendetta, which is beside the point), but after 3 years of trying to argue about it, I've finally resigned myself as a d20 gamer rather than a D&D gamer (in other words... Ah, never mind, it's in my sig, after all.). At any rate, when 3E came out, and after 6 months of contemplating the rules and debating the issue with my players (who were <em>very</em> resistant to 3E), I was faced with a choice: Stay with 2E or go 3E. And while there was a multitude of flavor issues with 3E, I saw the superiority of the d20 engine that it ran on, and decided the long-term benefits would be worth it.</p><p> </p><p>Thus far, it's paid off quite well.</p><p> </p><p>As is, though, I've contemplated another possible system (or, that is to say, another take on d20), being with one class, group weapons as Skills, Spell Seeds broken down into Skills, and thus make everything either a Skill or a Feat (say, as a working model, 10 Skill Points per Level and Feats every even level). Of course, eventually it starts looking like an exceedingly trimmed down M&M game, which is why I'll probably not go that route, but it was a thought. (And having written this, new ideas on making it work are formulating!!! AAAAAHHHHH!!!!)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bendris Noulg, post: 1420920, member: 6398"] Y'know, I've no idea. Two of my players were new to the game when they signed on (app. 5 years ago) and both chose non-casters I think for the purpose of simplicity. When we converted to d20, they chose not to deviate from this (although one switched from Fighter to Fighter/Rogue/Ranger). On top, Divine Casters (Druids and Shaman from the Primal Codex) don't have the same pull-back as Arcane Casters (essentially, I play up the RP-side of religion, faith, duty, etc., while leaving them mostly unchanged mechanically), and they aren't popular choices either. I think we just have similar tastes in fantasy, with D&D magic distracting from it rather than contributing. That said, I'll bring it up in pre-game tomorrow. As for it improving the game, I'm going to say yes, but only in practice (that is to say, it works with our group at our table). Characters seem more grounded in reality (i.e., more like "real people" in a fantasy setting), which likely makes them easier for the group to relate to. I will say that there are other games locally and my players know it; While my wife remaining faithful is half-expected ( ;) ), the fact that the other two have remained with us despite other options would seem to be a good sign that I'm doing [i]something[/i] right. Actually, the rules for spellcasters are converted to d20 from the 2E Player's Option: Spells & Magic. It took [i]some[/i] tweaking for d20, but not that incredibly difficult. (The slapped-together version for ESD conversion is on my website, while the "official Aedon model" should be up next week... The later will be a bit more detailed and presented cleaner, but the ESD Conversion Agreement states that conversions must be straight conversions, not "how I would have done it", so I did just that...) Ah, this is more of an edition issue... With 1E/2E, we were presented with all these tools and basically told, "do as you wish." High Magic, ala Planescape, or Low Magic, ala early FR, or whatever. So I did. It's only now, with 3E, that someone decided to say, "this is how the game is balanced and therefore how it is played". Personally, I think it's a load of crap (I half-think someone at WotC was picked on for being a Munchkin during his childhood and thus used 3E as an instrument of vendetta, which is beside the point), but after 3 years of trying to argue about it, I've finally resigned myself as a d20 gamer rather than a D&D gamer (in other words... Ah, never mind, it's in my sig, after all.). At any rate, when 3E came out, and after 6 months of contemplating the rules and debating the issue with my players (who were [i]very[/i] resistant to 3E), I was faced with a choice: Stay with 2E or go 3E. And while there was a multitude of flavor issues with 3E, I saw the superiority of the d20 engine that it ran on, and decided the long-term benefits would be worth it. Thus far, it's paid off quite well. As is, though, I've contemplated another possible system (or, that is to say, another take on d20), being with one class, group weapons as Skills, Spell Seeds broken down into Skills, and thus make everything either a Skill or a Feat (say, as a working model, 10 Skill Points per Level and Feats every even level). Of course, eventually it starts looking like an exceedingly trimmed down M&M game, which is why I'll probably not go that route, but it was a thought. (And having written this, new ideas on making it work are formulating!!! AAAAAHHHHH!!!!) [/QUOTE]
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