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What is "grim and gritty" and "low magic" anyway?
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<blockquote data-quote="hong" data-source="post: 1421681" data-attributes="member: 537"><p>Sigh.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This has been a part of D&D ever since day one. It's a bit late to complain about that, don't you think?</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>From what I've seen, many such gamers want to be confined by the expectations of that one particular genre. They have no particular desire to do things that fall outside that genre: teleporting, flying, taking on armies single-handed, etc. Therefore, it's only logical that if mechanically speaking they don't want to change much, their levels shouldn't change much, relatively speaking.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is no such thing as "playing the game right", at least not in the way you seem to be implying. D&D handles low magic perfectly well, and high magic perfectly well. It handles low magic at low levels, and high magic at high levels. The two are different games. You can certainly try to shoehorn the low magic style into high levels, but why bother? You'll be doing nothing that you couldn't already do at low levels.</p><p></p><p>And yes, you get lots of feats and skill points and whatnot at high levels. This is irrelevant. You can just as easily give out more feats and skill points at low levels, and this has the benefit of not having to deal with the other baggage of high-level play: more hit points, better BAB and saves, tougher monsters, etc. Or you could just play out these things freeform, without the need for game mechanics. It would save a lot of time and hassle, and furthermore, get around another of the common complaints: "it's all die rolling, there's no roleplaying anymore".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The only thing that's wrong is this silly strawman of yours. Who, exactly, is crippled at 5th level? Even if you take bog-standard D&D, a 5th level fighter can take on a platoon of orcs without too much trouble, a 5th level rogue can sneak into most places untouched, etc.</p><p></p><p>The only thing that could possibly make a 5th level fighter look "crippled" by comparison is a 20th level fighter. But if your campaign ends at 5th or 10th level, then 20TH LEVEL FIGHTERS DON'T EXIST. The ceiling is redefined, and that's what counts. Why do you care if, in Joe Munchkin's campaign down the road, 40th level wizard/paladins are matching up with balors and whatnot? Within the reality of your game world, Joe Munchkin is irrelevant.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The ELH is a pile of garbage. There is nothing particularly "epic" about Gandalf, except maybe the fact that he's an angel. The ELH conflates two entirely different meanings of the word epic, and befuddles more than it illuminates.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>The people who play in one, rather narrowly-defined genre, and want a game to support only that genre, are the ones who aren't wearing the straitjacket. Right.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hong, post: 1421681, member: 537"] Sigh. This has been a part of D&D ever since day one. It's a bit late to complain about that, don't you think? From what I've seen, many such gamers want to be confined by the expectations of that one particular genre. They have no particular desire to do things that fall outside that genre: teleporting, flying, taking on armies single-handed, etc. Therefore, it's only logical that if mechanically speaking they don't want to change much, their levels shouldn't change much, relatively speaking. There is no such thing as "playing the game right", at least not in the way you seem to be implying. D&D handles low magic perfectly well, and high magic perfectly well. It handles low magic at low levels, and high magic at high levels. The two are different games. You can certainly try to shoehorn the low magic style into high levels, but why bother? You'll be doing nothing that you couldn't already do at low levels. And yes, you get lots of feats and skill points and whatnot at high levels. This is irrelevant. You can just as easily give out more feats and skill points at low levels, and this has the benefit of not having to deal with the other baggage of high-level play: more hit points, better BAB and saves, tougher monsters, etc. Or you could just play out these things freeform, without the need for game mechanics. It would save a lot of time and hassle, and furthermore, get around another of the common complaints: "it's all die rolling, there's no roleplaying anymore". The only thing that's wrong is this silly strawman of yours. Who, exactly, is crippled at 5th level? Even if you take bog-standard D&D, a 5th level fighter can take on a platoon of orcs without too much trouble, a 5th level rogue can sneak into most places untouched, etc. The only thing that could possibly make a 5th level fighter look "crippled" by comparison is a 20th level fighter. But if your campaign ends at 5th or 10th level, then 20TH LEVEL FIGHTERS DON'T EXIST. The ceiling is redefined, and that's what counts. Why do you care if, in Joe Munchkin's campaign down the road, 40th level wizard/paladins are matching up with balors and whatnot? Within the reality of your game world, Joe Munchkin is irrelevant. The ELH is a pile of garbage. There is nothing particularly "epic" about Gandalf, except maybe the fact that he's an angel. The ELH conflates two entirely different meanings of the word epic, and befuddles more than it illuminates. The people who play in one, rather narrowly-defined genre, and want a game to support only that genre, are the ones who aren't wearing the straitjacket. Right. [/QUOTE]
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