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What is "grim and gritty" and "low magic" anyway?
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<blockquote data-quote="kamosa" data-source="post: 1421709" data-attributes="member: 1037"><p>I would agree with this, and think that this is exactly what I have been saying. GM's don't want to admit they are playing low level D&D, so they rip out all the stuff that makes a game high level and then say they are playing high level. </p><p></p><p>When characters advance they get feats, spells, skills and BAB. Each class is strong in one or two of those catagories. Since the mages aren't ever going to challenge the parties theif or fighter on hitpoints, skills, BAB or feats, the only real thing they gain in comparison to the party is spells. If you take away the spells or cripple the spells system, the caster esentially falls behind at every level. Until finally they are the same level in name only, and they are really just third or fourth class citizens in the party. </p><p></p><p>DC's for skills increase, hitpoints and AC's for monsters increase, but so does the skill level and damage per round of the fighters and rogues. So, in that sense the challenge to the party stays the same for those classes. They have around the same chance of success killing the monster as they did at first level, and they have about the same success rate of picking the tricky locks at high levels as they did the low level locks at first level.</p><p></p><p>So, you get a situation where the challenges get increasingly hard for the casters, while the challenges stay relatively the same for the fighters and rogues. Add into this the SR and other mage beating stuff that higher level monsters have and guess who isn't having a good time and isn't able effectively participate in the combats.</p><p></p><p>IMHO, a fighter is just as interesting to play at low levels as high levels. I actually think a rogue is most interesting upto 5th level. Since, their game doesn't change that much at high levels, the only thing you gain, or fear from going to high levels is the caster threat to game stability. So why not just admit it and play at those levels. Casters won't ruin your game, and it won't actually change the core play of the other core classes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kamosa, post: 1421709, member: 1037"] I would agree with this, and think that this is exactly what I have been saying. GM's don't want to admit they are playing low level D&D, so they rip out all the stuff that makes a game high level and then say they are playing high level. When characters advance they get feats, spells, skills and BAB. Each class is strong in one or two of those catagories. Since the mages aren't ever going to challenge the parties theif or fighter on hitpoints, skills, BAB or feats, the only real thing they gain in comparison to the party is spells. If you take away the spells or cripple the spells system, the caster esentially falls behind at every level. Until finally they are the same level in name only, and they are really just third or fourth class citizens in the party. DC's for skills increase, hitpoints and AC's for monsters increase, but so does the skill level and damage per round of the fighters and rogues. So, in that sense the challenge to the party stays the same for those classes. They have around the same chance of success killing the monster as they did at first level, and they have about the same success rate of picking the tricky locks at high levels as they did the low level locks at first level. So, you get a situation where the challenges get increasingly hard for the casters, while the challenges stay relatively the same for the fighters and rogues. Add into this the SR and other mage beating stuff that higher level monsters have and guess who isn't having a good time and isn't able effectively participate in the combats. IMHO, a fighter is just as interesting to play at low levels as high levels. I actually think a rogue is most interesting upto 5th level. Since, their game doesn't change that much at high levels, the only thing you gain, or fear from going to high levels is the caster threat to game stability. So why not just admit it and play at those levels. Casters won't ruin your game, and it won't actually change the core play of the other core classes. [/QUOTE]
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What is "grim and gritty" and "low magic" anyway?
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