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What is player agency to you?
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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9116838" data-attributes="member: 6684958"><p>This is different game Styles.</p><p></p><p>The Ur Classic Traditional Game Style as codified by D&D is a couple strangers with "no names and no pasts" randomly meet up and then each week or so they have an Eposoctic Adventure. The foundation here is The Seven Samurai movie, and can be seen in most 70-90 'action' type TV shows where each week the group goes to a new place for a new adventure. Each group member has a story, but they take a far back seat to the 'now' story-of-the-week.</p><p></p><p>It's even the Classic Dragonlance Style. Though most of the 'core' group did use the 'we grew up together' exploit..but the rest just joined. Though Dragonlance also really highlighted the individual stories of each character too. As there were players that wanted more to a character then just a name and background backstory.</p><p></p><p>And this gets to the ageless problem: Many GM's want to tell a story about an event, or more simply put: an Adventure. And the players want an adventure....a whole world really, that just revolves around them.</p><p></p><p>Oh so much this. Everyone gets together to play an adventure "The Mummys Mask" and maybe five minutes after the start Player Larry is like "can I abandon everyone else and go look for the orcs that killed my character dad? It is the ONLY thing I want to do." The DM says "no, that is not the adventure this week". Larry gets all mad becuase he is not the super special spotlight the world revolves around.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But, to be clear....you ONLY like pure player stories lead by pure player actions with near zero input from you. You sure have never said that as a GM you EVER want to tell YOUR story. And I'd ask: why not? You sure roll out the red carpet for player stories....so why not GM stories?</p><p></p><p>As a game is just you and some players.....I guess your saying here the players are the ones to decide everything? How do you see it as a dialogue? You make it sound very one sided: the players have all the power and you have none. You can't even say you work with the players together to decide things....because you type, right above, that it's not YOUR job to decide anything.</p><p></p><p>But your sure not doing anything YOU want....unless you make the circle argument that all you want is to serve the players. Everything you do in a game is for and by the players....you won't even consider doing anything else.</p><p></p><p>Agreed.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is yet another example of a player altering reality. And I just don't get how this is so great.</p><p></p><p>The character just randomly wanders onto "their land" somewhere. The character then just stands there....and the player makes a "circle check" to see if any of his family is around. The play makes the check. The GM looks at the rules and says "Yup, some of your family members ARE JUST RIGHT THERE" as the GM alters game reality at the REQUEST of the player(so really it's the player doing it, as the GM is just the 'yes middle man'). I GET that as a GM you can ENDLESS hide behind The Rules and say "you did not alter anything whatever the player just asked for was JUST THERE as they make an offical rules roll and made it.</p><p></p><p>How would I do this in D&D? Well....I would NEVER just have family members just 'pop' in right next to a PC when the player asks "so is my family around?" And D&D has no realty altering rules for this so...no rules here.</p><p></p><p>Most often I, alone, as the GM would make the characters family all by myself. Names, descriptions, who they are, where they are and such. And I would make a "player handout" of "your family" for the player and give it to them. Once in a while a good player might want to make up their own family...though just about always the bare bones of like 'name, what they do and a sentience about them'. Then they will give me a copy and I will utterly do whatever I want with the information no matter what the player wrote....though chances are I will keep the player made names. And the player has no choice but to accept whatever I do, if I choose to do anything.</p><p></p><p>In ANY case, just about the ONLY way the character could EVER meet a family member is if they were to go to wherever the family member is and meet them in gameplay. Some family members might wander, but I'll make a simple map of "where they are where and when" to keep track of them as needed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9116838, member: 6684958"] This is different game Styles. The Ur Classic Traditional Game Style as codified by D&D is a couple strangers with "no names and no pasts" randomly meet up and then each week or so they have an Eposoctic Adventure. The foundation here is The Seven Samurai movie, and can be seen in most 70-90 'action' type TV shows where each week the group goes to a new place for a new adventure. Each group member has a story, but they take a far back seat to the 'now' story-of-the-week. It's even the Classic Dragonlance Style. Though most of the 'core' group did use the 'we grew up together' exploit..but the rest just joined. Though Dragonlance also really highlighted the individual stories of each character too. As there were players that wanted more to a character then just a name and background backstory. And this gets to the ageless problem: Many GM's want to tell a story about an event, or more simply put: an Adventure. And the players want an adventure....a whole world really, that just revolves around them. Oh so much this. Everyone gets together to play an adventure "The Mummys Mask" and maybe five minutes after the start Player Larry is like "can I abandon everyone else and go look for the orcs that killed my character dad? It is the ONLY thing I want to do." The DM says "no, that is not the adventure this week". Larry gets all mad becuase he is not the super special spotlight the world revolves around. But, to be clear....you ONLY like pure player stories lead by pure player actions with near zero input from you. You sure have never said that as a GM you EVER want to tell YOUR story. And I'd ask: why not? You sure roll out the red carpet for player stories....so why not GM stories? As a game is just you and some players.....I guess your saying here the players are the ones to decide everything? How do you see it as a dialogue? You make it sound very one sided: the players have all the power and you have none. You can't even say you work with the players together to decide things....because you type, right above, that it's not YOUR job to decide anything. But your sure not doing anything YOU want....unless you make the circle argument that all you want is to serve the players. Everything you do in a game is for and by the players....you won't even consider doing anything else. Agreed. This is yet another example of a player altering reality. And I just don't get how this is so great. The character just randomly wanders onto "their land" somewhere. The character then just stands there....and the player makes a "circle check" to see if any of his family is around. The play makes the check. The GM looks at the rules and says "Yup, some of your family members ARE JUST RIGHT THERE" as the GM alters game reality at the REQUEST of the player(so really it's the player doing it, as the GM is just the 'yes middle man'). I GET that as a GM you can ENDLESS hide behind The Rules and say "you did not alter anything whatever the player just asked for was JUST THERE as they make an offical rules roll and made it. How would I do this in D&D? Well....I would NEVER just have family members just 'pop' in right next to a PC when the player asks "so is my family around?" And D&D has no realty altering rules for this so...no rules here. Most often I, alone, as the GM would make the characters family all by myself. Names, descriptions, who they are, where they are and such. And I would make a "player handout" of "your family" for the player and give it to them. Once in a while a good player might want to make up their own family...though just about always the bare bones of like 'name, what they do and a sentience about them'. Then they will give me a copy and I will utterly do whatever I want with the information no matter what the player wrote....though chances are I will keep the player made names. And the player has no choice but to accept whatever I do, if I choose to do anything. In ANY case, just about the ONLY way the character could EVER meet a family member is if they were to go to wherever the family member is and meet them in gameplay. Some family members might wander, but I'll make a simple map of "where they are where and when" to keep track of them as needed. [/QUOTE]
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