Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What is/should be the Ranger's "thing"?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="TheCosmicKid" data-source="post: 6669279" data-attributes="member: 6683613"><p>Like I said, the fluff is what tells us what Gygax was actually thinking about when he wrote the class. All the mechanics are ostensibly in service of the fluff. It makes sense to ask, "Do the mechanics effectively or ineffectively reflect what the fluff says?" It does not make sense to ask the reverse.</p><p></p><p>And I think the mundane ranger ought to be an option. But as far as discovering the theme of the 1E ranger as Gygax wrote it, I have a hard time believing you honestly don't see how druid spells show a connection to an outdoorsman theme. If the rogue got the ability to cast illusion spells, I'd disagree with it because I think the rogue ought to be mundane, but it would still be evidence that whoever wrote that rogue saw it as a trickster class.</p><p></p><p>Okay, then that's two out of three. You're making my point for me.</p><p></p><p>...and I'm pretty sure you're just arguing for the sake of argument here, considering the above.</p><p></p><p>It should not depend on the woods to a major extent, yes, because that would punish a player for adventuring into diverse locations. Much as book knowledge is a wizard's "thing", but his powers don't depend on being in a library. These places are where these characters picked up their skills, but the skills have broader applicability.</p><p></p><p>As the ranger is written in 5E, this is not true when the characters are in the ranger's favored terrain. The ranger effectively has expertise, so he equals the rogue in raw skill bonus, and he also gets some added functionality from the Natural Explorer ability (most usefully, in my experience, being able to track while still remaining on lookout). The fighter, of course, doesn't get expertise and doesn't even come close.</p><p></p><p>And we are discussing <em>rewriting</em> the ranger, so augmenting the class abilities here is very much on the table. Just spitballing here, but a good start would be letting a ranger "acclimatize" to treat wherever he is as a favored terrain after an appropriate period. Or just making the abilities "always on". And surely it's possible to write more impressive abilities that directly or indirectly key off of Survival, the way a rogue has Sneak Attack keying off of Stealth/Deception. I've made this point before, but: nobody is complaining that you can build a rogue just by giving a fighter Stealth and the criminal background.</p><p></p><p><em>Characters</em> have backstories. <em>Classes</em> don't.</p><p></p><p>This is... I'm trying not to call you names, but this is just a really, <em>really</em> arrogant statement. Please give it another read and try to understand how it sounds to others. "Do things my way, and if you don't like it, it's on you to figure out how to deal with it."</p><p></p><p>Again: rogues and sneakiness. Opening up the skill system to other classes hasn't damaged the rogue's identity. Heck, even as early as 2E other classes could hide in shadows and move silently, so the rogue's "thing" has ostensibly been co-opted far longer than the ranger's.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheCosmicKid, post: 6669279, member: 6683613"] Like I said, the fluff is what tells us what Gygax was actually thinking about when he wrote the class. All the mechanics are ostensibly in service of the fluff. It makes sense to ask, "Do the mechanics effectively or ineffectively reflect what the fluff says?" It does not make sense to ask the reverse. And I think the mundane ranger ought to be an option. But as far as discovering the theme of the 1E ranger as Gygax wrote it, I have a hard time believing you honestly don't see how druid spells show a connection to an outdoorsman theme. If the rogue got the ability to cast illusion spells, I'd disagree with it because I think the rogue ought to be mundane, but it would still be evidence that whoever wrote that rogue saw it as a trickster class. Okay, then that's two out of three. You're making my point for me. ...and I'm pretty sure you're just arguing for the sake of argument here, considering the above. It should not depend on the woods to a major extent, yes, because that would punish a player for adventuring into diverse locations. Much as book knowledge is a wizard's "thing", but his powers don't depend on being in a library. These places are where these characters picked up their skills, but the skills have broader applicability. As the ranger is written in 5E, this is not true when the characters are in the ranger's favored terrain. The ranger effectively has expertise, so he equals the rogue in raw skill bonus, and he also gets some added functionality from the Natural Explorer ability (most usefully, in my experience, being able to track while still remaining on lookout). The fighter, of course, doesn't get expertise and doesn't even come close. And we are discussing [I]rewriting[/I] the ranger, so augmenting the class abilities here is very much on the table. Just spitballing here, but a good start would be letting a ranger "acclimatize" to treat wherever he is as a favored terrain after an appropriate period. Or just making the abilities "always on". And surely it's possible to write more impressive abilities that directly or indirectly key off of Survival, the way a rogue has Sneak Attack keying off of Stealth/Deception. I've made this point before, but: nobody is complaining that you can build a rogue just by giving a fighter Stealth and the criminal background. [I]Characters[/I] have backstories. [I]Classes[/I] don't. This is... I'm trying not to call you names, but this is just a really, [I]really[/I] arrogant statement. Please give it another read and try to understand how it sounds to others. "Do things my way, and if you don't like it, it's on you to figure out how to deal with it." Again: rogues and sneakiness. Opening up the skill system to other classes hasn't damaged the rogue's identity. Heck, even as early as 2E other classes could hide in shadows and move silently, so the rogue's "thing" has ostensibly been co-opted far longer than the ranger's. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What is/should be the Ranger's "thing"?
Top