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What is the most powerful spell?
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<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 7245220" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p>@<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=5889" target="_blank">Stalker0</a></u></strong></em> − continuing your earlier post</p><p></p><p><strong>Death Ward</strong> to Excellent. True. The way 5e works being able to fight fully at 1 hp even when back from 0 hp, makes this a powerful spell.</p><p></p><p><strong>Vampiric Touch</strong> 3 is noticeably better than the Less Useful <strong>Flame Blade</strong> 2. In comparison, Vampiric Touch would have to at least be Excellent at 2nd-level. As Less Useful as Flame Blade is, the damage seems appropriate to 2nd level albeit awkward to find a situation to cast it. The possibility of Vampiric Touch adding a modicum of healing actually makes it more useful.</p><p></p><p><strong>Delayed Blast</strong> is at least as effective as using a 7th level spell slot to heighten the 3rd-level Fireball spell. Since, Fireball sets the standard for damage, it is hard to move it. Depending on how long the caster can delay it, this Setup deals more damage, and might allow a future action to even deal additional damage, simultaneously.</p><p></p><p>Using higher level spell slots for Fireball establishes the standard damage for each spell level:</p><p></p><p>3rd slot: 21.0 (8d6)</p><p>4th slot: 23.6 (9d6)</p><p>5th slot: 26.3 (1́0d6)</p><p>6th slot: 28.9 (11d6) − <strong>Fire Storm</strong></p><p>7th slot: 31.5 (12d6) − Delayed Blast</p><p>8th slot: 34.1 (13d6)</p><p></p><p>Note, the damage of the first tier is much lower (such as Scorching Ray), and the last tier much higher (such as Meteor Swarm), than the standard damage of the mid tiers, corresponding to Fireball and other damage spells.</p><p></p><p><strong>Teleport</strong> 7 is less effective because of its chance of errors. Even the worse than the damage is the possibility of ending up anywhere in the universe at some random location. Even if using a scry spell to link to the destination, it only counts as having been ‘viewed once’ and carries significant risk (53%!). It seems to me, the only time it is worthwhile to use the spell is if you already know the sigil for a pre-existing Teleportation Circle, or alternatively happen to be carrying a physical ‘associated object’ that came from that destination. Both of these options are highly situational.</p><p></p><p>Now the 5th-level spell <strong>Teleportation Circle</strong> 5, is already the game changer. And for the most part it is an even better spell than Teleport 7 because you can actually create your own Teleportation Circle, where you need it to be. That said, while it is cool that you can create your own permanent Teleportation Circle, its year-long casting requirement makes this aspect more of a lair spell. But you can still teleport to any Teleportation Circle whose sigil you know. Thus, the ability of Teleport 7 to use an ‘associated object’, despite it being highly situational, does offer some utility by expanding the number of possible destinations.</p><p></p><p><strong>Planeshift</strong> 7 is an Excellent spell, show up *anywhere* in the multiverse with decent accuracy and without misshap.</p><p></p><p>The sense is, Teleport 7 is somewhere around 6th level, being less useful than 7th-level Planeshift and slightly more useful than 5th-level Teleportation Circle.</p><p></p><p>I moved <strong>Word of Recall</strong> 6 ‘up’ to the 5th slot as a Less Useful Setup. It is less useful than Teleportation Circle. For some reason, I assumed it used a *reaction* because its only purpose is as an emergence get-out-of-jail-free card in case of a TPK. But it requires a full action. It might even be a 4th slot. But for now, it might have some utility for expeditions into uncharted territory, to return conveniently enough.</p><p></p><p>That reminds me, probably all travel spells qualify to be in the Setup category, with the benefit happening ‘later’ after one arrives to where one needs to be. Planeshift moves to an Excellent Setup spell for the 7th slot.</p><p></p><p><strong>Misty Step</strong> is a favorite spell of mine. It is a ‘flashy’ spell. Yet it seems unbroken for 2nd level. Because it can only happen once on a turn, for a slot, its effectiveness is more like the Shield 1 spell. Effective but only once.</p><p></p><p>The DMG homebrew Eladrin Elf can get Misty Step as a race feature, and no character optimizers are clamoring for it. It seems suitable alongside other 2nd slot spells such as Invisibility.</p><p></p><p>Regarding the complaint about it being too ‘flashy’ for the Paladin. This relates more to spell thematics. If I had my way, all Wizard spells would be organized thematically by ‘domain’ (not school). A Wizard would pick one or two or maybe three domains depending on Wizard tradition. Then the Wizard wuld use any spell slot including the highest level slot available for a known domain spell. However, only slots of lower than the highest level could be used to access spells of an unknown domain. 3e psionics did something like this, and I like the way it reinforces thematic flavor, while still allowing versatility. In the case of the Paladin, simply remove Misty Step from the spell list, unless it is clearly appropriate.</p><p></p><p>To be honest, Misty Step probably is thematically appropriate for the Fey-theme ‘Green Knight’ Ancients Paladin. This corresponds to some degree to the ’Faerie Knight’ of the reallife medieval world view, who kinda did do stuff like this.</p><p></p><p>Note, <strong>Fly</strong> lasts for upto an hour, thus is head-and-shoulders beyond Misty Step.</p><p></p><p><strong>Creation</strong> 5 is normally a less useful spell. You admit a 5th slot for it seems a ‘bit steep’. Perhaps it could work at 3rd level? Even at times where it might have been useful, a high level slot for it prohibits its use. Any spell that can only gain benefit if the reallife player is ingenious, is its own kind of ‘highly situational’. Note spells like <strong>Prestidigitation</strong> and <strong>Minor Image</strong> are 0-level cantrips, and <strong>Phantasmal Force</strong> and <strong>Suggestion</strong> 2nd-level spells, that also benefit from ingenuity. It seems better to reward the player for being ingenious, rather than punish all players by inflating the spell level of ingenuity spells. That said, <strong>Major Image</strong> is 3rd level. Perhaps a small physical conjuration is roughly as useful as a gargantuan nonphysical apparition? Personally, I probably wouldnt cast the Creation spell, unless it was from a 2nd-level spell slot.</p><p></p><p><strong>Warding Bond</strong> 2 to Good. Are you sure? Self-damage seems problematic, especially for a caster who rarely has hit points to spare. Or else, if a gishy Eldrich Knight is at the front lines and needs those hit points. How often have players in your campaign cast it?</p><p></p><p><strong>Magic Mouth</strong> 2 to a 1st-level spell slot. I am happy to agree with you. But before moving it, note. Its power comes from being able to determine precisely when the mouth gets triggered, depending on any close range sound or sight. For example, put it Magic Mouth on your money purse or backpack, too scream if anyone other than you tries to open it. Put it on the door if camping underground to wake you if an intruder enters. And so on. It is one of those ingenuity spells. It seems better than the 1st-slot Alarm spell that cannot do these special kinds of activations.</p><p></p><p>That said, <strong>Programmed Illusion</strong> 6 approximates the utility of Magic Mouth. Altho Programmed Illusion can manifest a gargantuan illusion, the fact that it must be determined ahead of time, prevents it being used on-the-fly, thus hampers its use as an ingenuity spell. The preprogramming reduces the usefulness making the utility of an impressive image highly situational. For the moment, Programmed Illusion is a Setup spell at 3rd slot, comparable to Excellent Major Image, while Magic Mouth is at 2nd slot. At the worst, one could use Programmed Illusion as an action to activate instantly, thus equate to Major Image. But delaying the illusion until later might as well be an aspect of Major Image itself, since it is a low level utility. Thoughts on Magic Mouth and Programmed Illusion?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 7245220, member: 58172"] @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=5889"]Stalker0[/URL][/U][/B][/I] − continuing your earlier post [B]Death Ward[/B] to Excellent. True. The way 5e works being able to fight fully at 1 hp even when back from 0 hp, makes this a powerful spell. [B]Vampiric Touch[/B] 3 is noticeably better than the Less Useful [B]Flame Blade[/B] 2. In comparison, Vampiric Touch would have to at least be Excellent at 2nd-level. As Less Useful as Flame Blade is, the damage seems appropriate to 2nd level albeit awkward to find a situation to cast it. The possibility of Vampiric Touch adding a modicum of healing actually makes it more useful. [B]Delayed Blast[/B] is at least as effective as using a 7th level spell slot to heighten the 3rd-level Fireball spell. Since, Fireball sets the standard for damage, it is hard to move it. Depending on how long the caster can delay it, this Setup deals more damage, and might allow a future action to even deal additional damage, simultaneously. Using higher level spell slots for Fireball establishes the standard damage for each spell level: 3rd slot: 21.0 (8d6) 4th slot: 23.6 (9d6) 5th slot: 26.3 (1́0d6) 6th slot: 28.9 (11d6) − [B]Fire Storm[/B] 7th slot: 31.5 (12d6) − Delayed Blast 8th slot: 34.1 (13d6) Note, the damage of the first tier is much lower (such as Scorching Ray), and the last tier much higher (such as Meteor Swarm), than the standard damage of the mid tiers, corresponding to Fireball and other damage spells. [B]Teleport[/B] 7 is less effective because of its chance of errors. Even the worse than the damage is the possibility of ending up anywhere in the universe at some random location. Even if using a scry spell to link to the destination, it only counts as having been ‘viewed once’ and carries significant risk (53%!). It seems to me, the only time it is worthwhile to use the spell is if you already know the sigil for a pre-existing Teleportation Circle, or alternatively happen to be carrying a physical ‘associated object’ that came from that destination. Both of these options are highly situational. Now the 5th-level spell [B]Teleportation Circle[/B] 5, is already the game changer. And for the most part it is an even better spell than Teleport 7 because you can actually create your own Teleportation Circle, where you need it to be. That said, while it is cool that you can create your own permanent Teleportation Circle, its year-long casting requirement makes this aspect more of a lair spell. But you can still teleport to any Teleportation Circle whose sigil you know. Thus, the ability of Teleport 7 to use an ‘associated object’, despite it being highly situational, does offer some utility by expanding the number of possible destinations. [B]Planeshift[/B] 7 is an Excellent spell, show up *anywhere* in the multiverse with decent accuracy and without misshap. The sense is, Teleport 7 is somewhere around 6th level, being less useful than 7th-level Planeshift and slightly more useful than 5th-level Teleportation Circle. I moved [B]Word of Recall[/B] 6 ‘up’ to the 5th slot as a Less Useful Setup. It is less useful than Teleportation Circle. For some reason, I assumed it used a *reaction* because its only purpose is as an emergence get-out-of-jail-free card in case of a TPK. But it requires a full action. It might even be a 4th slot. But for now, it might have some utility for expeditions into uncharted territory, to return conveniently enough. That reminds me, probably all travel spells qualify to be in the Setup category, with the benefit happening ‘later’ after one arrives to where one needs to be. Planeshift moves to an Excellent Setup spell for the 7th slot. [B]Misty Step[/B] is a favorite spell of mine. It is a ‘flashy’ spell. Yet it seems unbroken for 2nd level. Because it can only happen once on a turn, for a slot, its effectiveness is more like the Shield 1 spell. Effective but only once. The DMG homebrew Eladrin Elf can get Misty Step as a race feature, and no character optimizers are clamoring for it. It seems suitable alongside other 2nd slot spells such as Invisibility. Regarding the complaint about it being too ‘flashy’ for the Paladin. This relates more to spell thematics. If I had my way, all Wizard spells would be organized thematically by ‘domain’ (not school). A Wizard would pick one or two or maybe three domains depending on Wizard tradition. Then the Wizard wuld use any spell slot including the highest level slot available for a known domain spell. However, only slots of lower than the highest level could be used to access spells of an unknown domain. 3e psionics did something like this, and I like the way it reinforces thematic flavor, while still allowing versatility. In the case of the Paladin, simply remove Misty Step from the spell list, unless it is clearly appropriate. To be honest, Misty Step probably is thematically appropriate for the Fey-theme ‘Green Knight’ Ancients Paladin. This corresponds to some degree to the ’Faerie Knight’ of the reallife medieval world view, who kinda did do stuff like this. Note, [B]Fly[/B] lasts for upto an hour, thus is head-and-shoulders beyond Misty Step. [B]Creation[/B] 5 is normally a less useful spell. You admit a 5th slot for it seems a ‘bit steep’. Perhaps it could work at 3rd level? Even at times where it might have been useful, a high level slot for it prohibits its use. Any spell that can only gain benefit if the reallife player is ingenious, is its own kind of ‘highly situational’. Note spells like [B]Prestidigitation[/B] and [B]Minor Image[/B] are 0-level cantrips, and [B]Phantasmal Force[/B] and [B]Suggestion[/B] 2nd-level spells, that also benefit from ingenuity. It seems better to reward the player for being ingenious, rather than punish all players by inflating the spell level of ingenuity spells. That said, [B]Major Image[/B] is 3rd level. Perhaps a small physical conjuration is roughly as useful as a gargantuan nonphysical apparition? Personally, I probably wouldnt cast the Creation spell, unless it was from a 2nd-level spell slot. [B]Warding Bond[/B] 2 to Good. Are you sure? Self-damage seems problematic, especially for a caster who rarely has hit points to spare. Or else, if a gishy Eldrich Knight is at the front lines and needs those hit points. How often have players in your campaign cast it? [B]Magic Mouth[/B] 2 to a 1st-level spell slot. I am happy to agree with you. But before moving it, note. Its power comes from being able to determine precisely when the mouth gets triggered, depending on any close range sound or sight. For example, put it Magic Mouth on your money purse or backpack, too scream if anyone other than you tries to open it. Put it on the door if camping underground to wake you if an intruder enters. And so on. It is one of those ingenuity spells. It seems better than the 1st-slot Alarm spell that cannot do these special kinds of activations. That said, [B]Programmed Illusion[/B] 6 approximates the utility of Magic Mouth. Altho Programmed Illusion can manifest a gargantuan illusion, the fact that it must be determined ahead of time, prevents it being used on-the-fly, thus hampers its use as an ingenuity spell. The preprogramming reduces the usefulness making the utility of an impressive image highly situational. For the moment, Programmed Illusion is a Setup spell at 3rd slot, comparable to Excellent Major Image, while Magic Mouth is at 2nd slot. At the worst, one could use Programmed Illusion as an action to activate instantly, thus equate to Major Image. But delaying the illusion until later might as well be an aspect of Major Image itself, since it is a low level utility. Thoughts on Magic Mouth and Programmed Illusion? [/QUOTE]
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