Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What is *worldbuilding* for?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7333832" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Heh, well you are pretty clear <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>I think I don't really agree with you. Lets take a game of checkers as an example. Some moves are allowed by the rules of checkers, and some are not, they are invalid. That says nothing about the differences or lack of differences between the ALLOWED moves, and if you allowed more or less types of moves in your checkers game it would change the results of play, but it wouldn't change the nature of the sameness or difference in character of specific allowed moves.</p><p></p><p>In terms of that sameness or difference, the fact of making a legal move is still the same, regardless of which move it is. It is a move, made by either the red or black player. All such moves equally fulfill the "now the next player makes a legal move" structure of the game. In the same way [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s assertion about the similarity of finding a map or killing an orc is an assertion about the nature of the action in terms of its place within the game. </p><p></p><p>I'm pretty sure [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] is NOT saying that "there is no difference IN THE FICTION between killing an orc and finding a map." That wasn't what he meant (again at the risk of being the interpreter of Pemerton here). I think what he IS asserting is that when the players simply decide to open a door, without any influence over what is behind it nor knowledge of what is there vs what might lurk behind the other door down the hall, then you can't call the decision 'agency' as, from their point of view, either one might conceal an orc or a map, or nothing, and NONE of them will relate any more or less to the concerns of the players, their goals in play, etc. </p><p></p><p>I think this likewise addresses [MENTION=6682826]CH[/MENTION]auchou's observation that a game where the DM simply responds with his narration to each action and the player's simply wander in a hidden knowledge maze is about as interactive as a 'pick your own adventure' book. It does have CHOICE, but without knowledge there's no meaningful player agency, and the game doesn't, except by chance, address the concerns of the players.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7333832, member: 82106"] Heh, well you are pretty clear ;) I think I don't really agree with you. Lets take a game of checkers as an example. Some moves are allowed by the rules of checkers, and some are not, they are invalid. That says nothing about the differences or lack of differences between the ALLOWED moves, and if you allowed more or less types of moves in your checkers game it would change the results of play, but it wouldn't change the nature of the sameness or difference in character of specific allowed moves. In terms of that sameness or difference, the fact of making a legal move is still the same, regardless of which move it is. It is a move, made by either the red or black player. All such moves equally fulfill the "now the next player makes a legal move" structure of the game. In the same way [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s assertion about the similarity of finding a map or killing an orc is an assertion about the nature of the action in terms of its place within the game. I'm pretty sure [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] is NOT saying that "there is no difference IN THE FICTION between killing an orc and finding a map." That wasn't what he meant (again at the risk of being the interpreter of Pemerton here). I think what he IS asserting is that when the players simply decide to open a door, without any influence over what is behind it nor knowledge of what is there vs what might lurk behind the other door down the hall, then you can't call the decision 'agency' as, from their point of view, either one might conceal an orc or a map, or nothing, and NONE of them will relate any more or less to the concerns of the players, their goals in play, etc. I think this likewise addresses [MENTION=6682826]CH[/MENTION]auchou's observation that a game where the DM simply responds with his narration to each action and the player's simply wander in a hidden knowledge maze is about as interactive as a 'pick your own adventure' book. It does have CHOICE, but without knowledge there's no meaningful player agency, and the game doesn't, except by chance, address the concerns of the players. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What is *worldbuilding* for?
Top