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What levels should the D&D Pantheon Gods be?
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<blockquote data-quote="RainOfSteel" data-source="post: 5706653" data-attributes="member: 24460"><p>In my opinion, of course:</p><p></p><p>Whether "the gods" can even be challenged, or even understood, by mortals is established at the time of milieu creation.</p><p></p><p>If they cannot be challenged, they tend to be the type that do not personally appear, or do so only rarely or in forms that are either invulnerable or of too great a size to even engage.</p><p></p><p>Level is irrelevant in these cases. There is nothing the characters can do. Such appearances, if they even occur, tend to be accompanied by great radiating levels of charismatic and magical power that absolutely overwhelm all senses, no matter what type of protections are in place. They are the presence of power beyond power beyond fate and time. What they desire will happen. Is your character's level 1,000,000,000,000? Too bad, you lose.</p><p></p><p>I tend to want to run such powers as remote with control held by church officials to make religious situations more human. If only you can get good men in control, you can get good religion. Fail this, and evil will beset you. It also allows the overarching power, if it so chooses, to set up confrontational sects against those it has felt have fallen.</p><p></p><p>Then there is the next level down. Tremendously powerful gods that have avatars that appear in the mortal world. These avatars have mortal levels and can be challenged by mortals. Each avatar "takes up" a certain amount of divine power to create and so there is a limit on how many can be running around, especially linked to the base power tier of the deity involved. These types tend to fit most of what is presented such as in Planescape (to me) and many similar products. It is possible to go find these gods, meet and interact with them, be manipulated, and manipulate in return (if you're smart enough).</p><p></p><p>Hurting these beings is not always a smart idea, as their "over core" (or whatever you call it) has a long memory. If a demon prince is defeated in one slice (or slice group) of the Prime Material and cannot return there for 100-10,000 or whatever year penalty, then it may tend to try and retaliate indirectly by manipulating (or forcing) others to take up the role of vengeance. If the demon can do as, as some GMs may choose to impose absolute penalties against any type of retaliation due to the defeat, the "no power expenditure possible" option as a true reward for victory. But watch out after that as descendants are attacked and worlds smashed. (Ooh, a new campaign.)</p><p></p><p>To actually create a dead god with this set up, then to me one must eliminate all extant avatars, cutting the over core off from most of reality. (Or however you structure it.) This is a beyond epic task. Kill off Orcus? Good luck with that.</p><p></p><p>Then there are the type of gods that have only one divine existence, and if they can be slain, that is it. The Greek Gods may have been like this. David Eddings gods in the Elenium where like this. When [spoiler]Azash is slain the other gods all go into deep mourning when their most evil member of all and ever dies and the rest are forced to face the unpleasant realization of their own mortality despite their immense power.[/spoiler]</p><p></p><p>The key to this is making sure you know what kind of gods yours are, and where they sit.</p><p></p><p>In the middle, with the avatar system, their "mortal facing" construct can be whatever level is appropriate for your current players to go against.</p><p></p><p>The top level is simply impossible. The bottom level is very difficult to manage given that presets can easily be overun, unless you intend to allow floating presets that actualize only when encountered. This is why I tend not to use it much when I tinker with milieus.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RainOfSteel, post: 5706653, member: 24460"] In my opinion, of course: Whether "the gods" can even be challenged, or even understood, by mortals is established at the time of milieu creation. If they cannot be challenged, they tend to be the type that do not personally appear, or do so only rarely or in forms that are either invulnerable or of too great a size to even engage. Level is irrelevant in these cases. There is nothing the characters can do. Such appearances, if they even occur, tend to be accompanied by great radiating levels of charismatic and magical power that absolutely overwhelm all senses, no matter what type of protections are in place. They are the presence of power beyond power beyond fate and time. What they desire will happen. Is your character's level 1,000,000,000,000? Too bad, you lose. I tend to want to run such powers as remote with control held by church officials to make religious situations more human. If only you can get good men in control, you can get good religion. Fail this, and evil will beset you. It also allows the overarching power, if it so chooses, to set up confrontational sects against those it has felt have fallen. Then there is the next level down. Tremendously powerful gods that have avatars that appear in the mortal world. These avatars have mortal levels and can be challenged by mortals. Each avatar "takes up" a certain amount of divine power to create and so there is a limit on how many can be running around, especially linked to the base power tier of the deity involved. These types tend to fit most of what is presented such as in Planescape (to me) and many similar products. It is possible to go find these gods, meet and interact with them, be manipulated, and manipulate in return (if you're smart enough). Hurting these beings is not always a smart idea, as their "over core" (or whatever you call it) has a long memory. If a demon prince is defeated in one slice (or slice group) of the Prime Material and cannot return there for 100-10,000 or whatever year penalty, then it may tend to try and retaliate indirectly by manipulating (or forcing) others to take up the role of vengeance. If the demon can do as, as some GMs may choose to impose absolute penalties against any type of retaliation due to the defeat, the "no power expenditure possible" option as a true reward for victory. But watch out after that as descendants are attacked and worlds smashed. (Ooh, a new campaign.) To actually create a dead god with this set up, then to me one must eliminate all extant avatars, cutting the over core off from most of reality. (Or however you structure it.) This is a beyond epic task. Kill off Orcus? Good luck with that. Then there are the type of gods that have only one divine existence, and if they can be slain, that is it. The Greek Gods may have been like this. David Eddings gods in the Elenium where like this. When [spoiler]Azash is slain the other gods all go into deep mourning when their most evil member of all and ever dies and the rest are forced to face the unpleasant realization of their own mortality despite their immense power.[/spoiler] The key to this is making sure you know what kind of gods yours are, and where they sit. In the middle, with the avatar system, their "mortal facing" construct can be whatever level is appropriate for your current players to go against. The top level is simply impossible. The bottom level is very difficult to manage given that presets can easily be overun, unless you intend to allow floating presets that actualize only when encountered. This is why I tend not to use it much when I tinker with milieus. [/QUOTE]
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