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What makes an TTRPG a "Narrative Game" (Apocalypse World Discussion)
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<blockquote data-quote="pawsplay" data-source="post: 9318796" data-attributes="member: 15538"><p>At the risk of oversimplifying a long, complicated discussion that spans three different models of RPGs, and the post-model world we live in:</p><p></p><p>"Narrativist" games are games that fulfill a specific kind of gaming experience Edwards thought was under-supported. His response was to envision a "narrativist" game, and lots of designers followed suit with Story Now games. But a lot of those games addressed the premise by adding more game to it. In a sense, what was wanted was something that mechanically supported that "Narrativist" premise.</p><p></p><p>But a game with sufficient mechanistic aspects becomes less narrative. You can make a game that aggressively addresses Story Now with very few freeform elements at all. As long as the players are forced to make choices that confront the premise, it can fall under the umbrella of Story Now, "narrativist" games. </p><p></p><p>So, a PbtA game that wants to address a story premise in an organic way, but it loaded with mechanistic elements to bring those situations into play, occupies a kind of mid-point on the mechanistic (determination-based) to narrative (fiction-based) pole. The structure of a PbtA itself doesn't really insist on addressing either a story premise, or just beats that are appropriate to a genre. Different games fall on different places on that measure. Thirsty Sword Lesbians is definitely more narrative than mechanistic, but it's built around a pretty concrete style of play; I'm comfortable calling it a 6 or 7 out of 10.</p><p></p><p>By the same token, you can take an old-timey D&D module, and play it completely straight. However, if you allow the players to attempt any conceivable action, and the GM supports that freedom by trying to be even-handed, and the whole group is completely ready to go "off-script" if that occurs in the natural course of play, and the players are caught up in the imaginative act of being their characters, then that also reaches toward a mid-point. Like, the last time I played classic D&D, we did Castle Amber, and I'll tell you what, it was a wild ride. In the background there were hit points and experience points and so forth, but in the forefront, it was about the things we <em>did</em>. If you think of Castle Amber is a playground in which to experiment with different actions, and the GM is willing and able to extend the limited rules-set to adjudicate actions on the fly, I don't think it's hard to get a game that is like a 4 out of 10 on the narrative-o-tron. </p><p></p><p>I don't think you have level 9 or 10 narrative play without getting pretty close to notecard games, or mostly freeform. Similarly, I don't think you can get down to like a 1 (almost entirely mechanistic) without using a very mechanistic system and restricting the area of play to something that is pretty easy to quantify in the chosen system. Something like Rolemaster actually won't do it, because for all its mechanistic qualities, it tends to actually ignore things that are considered trivial for adventurers. Something like Dungeon Fantasy, played with a focus on tactics, can probably do like a 2.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pawsplay, post: 9318796, member: 15538"] At the risk of oversimplifying a long, complicated discussion that spans three different models of RPGs, and the post-model world we live in: "Narrativist" games are games that fulfill a specific kind of gaming experience Edwards thought was under-supported. His response was to envision a "narrativist" game, and lots of designers followed suit with Story Now games. But a lot of those games addressed the premise by adding more game to it. In a sense, what was wanted was something that mechanically supported that "Narrativist" premise. But a game with sufficient mechanistic aspects becomes less narrative. You can make a game that aggressively addresses Story Now with very few freeform elements at all. As long as the players are forced to make choices that confront the premise, it can fall under the umbrella of Story Now, "narrativist" games. So, a PbtA game that wants to address a story premise in an organic way, but it loaded with mechanistic elements to bring those situations into play, occupies a kind of mid-point on the mechanistic (determination-based) to narrative (fiction-based) pole. The structure of a PbtA itself doesn't really insist on addressing either a story premise, or just beats that are appropriate to a genre. Different games fall on different places on that measure. Thirsty Sword Lesbians is definitely more narrative than mechanistic, but it's built around a pretty concrete style of play; I'm comfortable calling it a 6 or 7 out of 10. By the same token, you can take an old-timey D&D module, and play it completely straight. However, if you allow the players to attempt any conceivable action, and the GM supports that freedom by trying to be even-handed, and the whole group is completely ready to go "off-script" if that occurs in the natural course of play, and the players are caught up in the imaginative act of being their characters, then that also reaches toward a mid-point. Like, the last time I played classic D&D, we did Castle Amber, and I'll tell you what, it was a wild ride. In the background there were hit points and experience points and so forth, but in the forefront, it was about the things we [I]did[/I]. If you think of Castle Amber is a playground in which to experiment with different actions, and the GM is willing and able to extend the limited rules-set to adjudicate actions on the fly, I don't think it's hard to get a game that is like a 4 out of 10 on the narrative-o-tron. I don't think you have level 9 or 10 narrative play without getting pretty close to notecard games, or mostly freeform. Similarly, I don't think you can get down to like a 1 (almost entirely mechanistic) without using a very mechanistic system and restricting the area of play to something that is pretty easy to quantify in the chosen system. Something like Rolemaster actually won't do it, because for all its mechanistic qualities, it tends to actually ignore things that are considered trivial for adventurers. Something like Dungeon Fantasy, played with a focus on tactics, can probably do like a 2. [/QUOTE]
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