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What makes an TTRPG a "Narrative Game" (Daggerheart Discussion)
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9317263" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I can't read pemeton's posts and logging out to look, I'm unsure which one of his posts you are talking about. Are you talking about the one where the author claims the design of the game is inspired by RE's "Story Now" essay?</p><p></p><p>All I can say is that intentions have nothing to with outcomes. "No myth" is not the be all end all of "Story Now", which reading RE's Story Now essay would make clear. Further, even if it was, "No myth" doesn't inherently mean it's the players that fill in the myth - who has narrative authority is a tangent to Story Now which was my main point. Rather Story Now is focused on who defines the conflicts ("premise" in forge speak) not who defines the myth, as I said. A GM running a Story Now game could have sole narrative authority (that is to invent the myth) but would be expected to invent myth that tests the conflict ("premise") introduced by the player characters. </p><p></p><p>This is made obvious in the context of DW where you are encouraged as the GM to "draw maps and leave blank spaces", so it's not even "no myth" but just "myth light". If DW is Nar then so is B1: In Search of the Unknown (maps with blank spaces).</p><p></p><p>If players set the premise is the entirety of being "nar" then the Star Wars game I'm running with WEG D6 is nar just because the players said, "Can we be in a Star Wars game where we all play bounty hunters?" </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Player characters as the protagonists is a standard feature of pretty much all RPGs. The fact that you have to write "in the true sense of the word" shows that I'm not one trying to redefine words. Being player driven and has the player characters as protagonist are concepts that could apply to any sandbox game. To claim otherwise would be to define protagonism such that the protagonists of most stories aren't protagonists, which is surely silly. To make it clear, most protagonists don't get to define what their own story is about and yet they are still very much protagonists. All that is required to have protagonists is for them to be the main character of the story and the one that is responsible resolving the main conflicts of the story. Now, that second condition can lead to some surprising facts, such that Indiana Jones is not the protagonist of "Raiders of the Lost Arc" but actually the deuteragonist - a main character who is of secondary importance responsible only for resolving only the conflicts side plot. But that being a "true" protagonist requires you to both establish the conflict as well as resolve it is both wrong and borders on committing one of the most common fallacies of nar play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9317263, member: 4937"] I can't read pemeton's posts and logging out to look, I'm unsure which one of his posts you are talking about. Are you talking about the one where the author claims the design of the game is inspired by RE's "Story Now" essay? All I can say is that intentions have nothing to with outcomes. "No myth" is not the be all end all of "Story Now", which reading RE's Story Now essay would make clear. Further, even if it was, "No myth" doesn't inherently mean it's the players that fill in the myth - who has narrative authority is a tangent to Story Now which was my main point. Rather Story Now is focused on who defines the conflicts ("premise" in forge speak) not who defines the myth, as I said. A GM running a Story Now game could have sole narrative authority (that is to invent the myth) but would be expected to invent myth that tests the conflict ("premise") introduced by the player characters. This is made obvious in the context of DW where you are encouraged as the GM to "draw maps and leave blank spaces", so it's not even "no myth" but just "myth light". If DW is Nar then so is B1: In Search of the Unknown (maps with blank spaces). If players set the premise is the entirety of being "nar" then the Star Wars game I'm running with WEG D6 is nar just because the players said, "Can we be in a Star Wars game where we all play bounty hunters?" Player characters as the protagonists is a standard feature of pretty much all RPGs. The fact that you have to write "in the true sense of the word" shows that I'm not one trying to redefine words. Being player driven and has the player characters as protagonist are concepts that could apply to any sandbox game. To claim otherwise would be to define protagonism such that the protagonists of most stories aren't protagonists, which is surely silly. To make it clear, most protagonists don't get to define what their own story is about and yet they are still very much protagonists. All that is required to have protagonists is for them to be the main character of the story and the one that is responsible resolving the main conflicts of the story. Now, that second condition can lead to some surprising facts, such that Indiana Jones is not the protagonist of "Raiders of the Lost Arc" but actually the deuteragonist - a main character who is of secondary importance responsible only for resolving only the conflicts side plot. But that being a "true" protagonist requires you to both establish the conflict as well as resolve it is both wrong and borders on committing one of the most common fallacies of nar play. [/QUOTE]
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