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What makes an TTRPG a "Narrative Game" (Daggerheart Discussion)
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9317382" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>This notion of "system" and "system matters" comes from an essay by Edwards: <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/system_does_matter.html" target="_blank">The Forge :: System Does Matter</a></p><p></p><p>By "system" Edwards doesn't mean "the stuff in the rulebook". Though that may be part of the system. By "system" he means <em><a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/2/" target="_blank">a means by which in-game events are determined to occur</a></em>.</p><p></p><p>Many RPG books do not state a complete system. For instance, in classic D&D play a very important means by which in-game events are determined to occur is that the GM - by reference to a map - tells the players that their PCs see a door, and then the players declare that their PCs open that door. And the GM then looks at their notes, which tells them what is behind that door on their map.</p><p></p><p>That is a system - I call it "map and key" for short - but I don't think it is fully spelled out in any version of D&D, although Moldvay Basic probably comes closest.</p><p></p><p>When we are talking about "narrativst" RPGing, we are talking about a system in which <em>the players</em> make a significant contribution to establishing the stakes of the situations that the GM narrates to them. Normally, this means that they (the players) also contribute in some fashion to the fictional elements that occur in those situations: for instance, the situation might involve or pertain to a NPC who the player has established matters to their PC.</p><p></p><p>The only D&D rulebooks to clearly talk about such a thing, as part of the system for establishing situations, is 4e's PHB and DMG, in their discussion of player-authored quests. But it can be done in other versions of D&D - eg I've done it in AD&D, in the second half of the 1980s.</p><p></p><p>But AD&D is not an ideal vehicle, because its rules for <em>consequences</em> tend to pull play away from those theme-laden situations. You can ignore the rules, of course, but this has its own problems: eg the game quickly turns into "GM decides" or "GM says", which undermines the players' role. 4e D&D doesn't have the same issue with consequences that AD&D has, and hence is a better vehicle for narrativist RPGing.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So what do we mean by "making up a story on the spot"? Do we mean working with the player to frame a situation? Or do we mean deciding what happens next, and leading the player through a romp?</p><p></p><p>The latter is GM-driven. The former can be player-driven. As I said just above, the problem with AD&D is that its rules for resolution and consequences tend to get in the way, and the more the GM sets them aside for that reason, the more likely play is to turn into the GM leading the player through a romp.</p><p></p><p>This is why good rules design can <em>facilitate</em> - sometimes quite a bit - a particular sort of approach to play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9317382, member: 42582"] This notion of "system" and "system matters" comes from an essay by Edwards: [URL=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/system_does_matter.html]The Forge :: System Does Matter[/URL] By "system" Edwards doesn't mean "the stuff in the rulebook". Though that may be part of the system. By "system" he means [I][url=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/2/]a means by which in-game events are determined to occur[/url][/I]. Many RPG books do not state a complete system. For instance, in classic D&D play a very important means by which in-game events are determined to occur is that the GM - by reference to a map - tells the players that their PCs see a door, and then the players declare that their PCs open that door. And the GM then looks at their notes, which tells them what is behind that door on their map. That is a system - I call it "map and key" for short - but I don't think it is fully spelled out in any version of D&D, although Moldvay Basic probably comes closest. When we are talking about "narrativst" RPGing, we are talking about a system in which [I]the players[/I] make a significant contribution to establishing the stakes of the situations that the GM narrates to them. Normally, this means that they (the players) also contribute in some fashion to the fictional elements that occur in those situations: for instance, the situation might involve or pertain to a NPC who the player has established matters to their PC. The only D&D rulebooks to clearly talk about such a thing, as part of the system for establishing situations, is 4e's PHB and DMG, in their discussion of player-authored quests. But it can be done in other versions of D&D - eg I've done it in AD&D, in the second half of the 1980s. But AD&D is not an ideal vehicle, because its rules for [I]consequences[/I] tend to pull play away from those theme-laden situations. You can ignore the rules, of course, but this has its own problems: eg the game quickly turns into "GM decides" or "GM says", which undermines the players' role. 4e D&D doesn't have the same issue with consequences that AD&D has, and hence is a better vehicle for narrativist RPGing. So what do we mean by "making up a story on the spot"? Do we mean working with the player to frame a situation? Or do we mean deciding what happens next, and leading the player through a romp? The latter is GM-driven. The former can be player-driven. As I said just above, the problem with AD&D is that its rules for resolution and consequences tend to get in the way, and the more the GM sets them aside for that reason, the more likely play is to turn into the GM leading the player through a romp. This is why good rules design can [I]facilitate[/I] - sometimes quite a bit - a particular sort of approach to play. [/QUOTE]
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