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General Tabletop Discussion
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What non-combat abilities should fighters have?
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<blockquote data-quote="jodyjohnson" data-source="post: 7188090" data-attributes="member: 5590"><p>I feel like including Expertise for Rogues and Bards kind of wrecked skill use for other classes in a not so subtle way.</p><p></p><p>A decent stat and a skill proficiency was supposed to feel like you were competent. In that system a fighter with all the traits mentioned above just has the background proficiencies associated with those abilities and a decent stat in the relevant ability checks. Now they 'have to have Expertise' to be considered good enough or when they only get a 15 on a skill check it is a failure or at the higher levels it has to be 25 (see Critical Role).</p><p></p><p>'Dice decide' style needs those huge bonuses to overcome the variance of the d20. In a 'DM decides' style I would say there is more room for just having a good stat or mere proficiency. The middle style kind of depends on how you run it. If the DM varies the DC based on the Skill of the actor then having an ultra high bonus wouldn't matter as much but if it more a variant on the 'dice decide' then you still need your bonuses maxed to succeed.</p><p></p><p>My scale I'd try is:</p><p>Dump Stat, no prof - roll for opposed checks stuff (perception, stealth, insight, persuasion, bluff) or things that almost always get rolls anyway. Anything that would probably require prof might get a roll at disadvantage (the ubiquitous 'me too' rolls).</p><p></p><p>Good stat or Prof (skilled) - much of the time auto-succeed on average non-opposed checks, make more difficult check with a lower DC</p><p></p><p>Good stat and Prof or Expertise - autosuccess more often and advantage versus the dump stat types on opposed rolls, lower DC on the merely difficult stuff.</p><p></p><p>Good stat and Expertise - no additional advantage - I'd prefer to just cap the skill bonus at +11 with advantage.</p><p></p><p>Kind of use Expertise as a way to overcome an ability lack or ramp up to the cap faster and then plateau.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jodyjohnson, post: 7188090, member: 5590"] I feel like including Expertise for Rogues and Bards kind of wrecked skill use for other classes in a not so subtle way. A decent stat and a skill proficiency was supposed to feel like you were competent. In that system a fighter with all the traits mentioned above just has the background proficiencies associated with those abilities and a decent stat in the relevant ability checks. Now they 'have to have Expertise' to be considered good enough or when they only get a 15 on a skill check it is a failure or at the higher levels it has to be 25 (see Critical Role). 'Dice decide' style needs those huge bonuses to overcome the variance of the d20. In a 'DM decides' style I would say there is more room for just having a good stat or mere proficiency. The middle style kind of depends on how you run it. If the DM varies the DC based on the Skill of the actor then having an ultra high bonus wouldn't matter as much but if it more a variant on the 'dice decide' then you still need your bonuses maxed to succeed. My scale I'd try is: Dump Stat, no prof - roll for opposed checks stuff (perception, stealth, insight, persuasion, bluff) or things that almost always get rolls anyway. Anything that would probably require prof might get a roll at disadvantage (the ubiquitous 'me too' rolls). Good stat or Prof (skilled) - much of the time auto-succeed on average non-opposed checks, make more difficult check with a lower DC Good stat and Prof or Expertise - autosuccess more often and advantage versus the dump stat types on opposed rolls, lower DC on the merely difficult stuff. Good stat and Expertise - no additional advantage - I'd prefer to just cap the skill bonus at +11 with advantage. Kind of use Expertise as a way to overcome an ability lack or ramp up to the cap faster and then plateau. [/QUOTE]
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What non-combat abilities should fighters have?
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