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What rules would you like to see come back in 5E?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tom Strickland" data-source="post: 6224863" data-attributes="member: 6753119"><p>Since it was mentioned as a candidate for both retaining and also--in contrast--excising: </p><p></p><p>Vancian magic likely remains appealing over a long time for some gamers despite numerous logical and fun alternates being available in fiction and RPG's (D&D and also others) because of: the stories. </p><p></p><p>Several current, famous authors give hat tips or more to his writings in multiple genres. I have read extensively in the fantasy and some in the sci-fi realms, especially in previous decades. I did read an anthology of "Dying Earth" tales as a tribute recently. Jack Vance's stories are delightful, magical adventures with danger, cunning, and intrigue, all set in rich tapestries of settings, people and behaviors.</p><p></p><p>So some people who like "vancian magic" in D&D do so because it captures a flavor of magic and adventure. Are there "better" systems? I don't look at it that way. A long time ago I considered the variant and other systems--aside from fully embracing numerous CRPG spell-systems with cool-downs, etc.--and decided that I would run with the Vancian mechanics in P&P because much effort had been spent by great, creative minds, to "balance" entire ecosystems comprised of skills, feats, spells, supernatural abilities, powers, class and creature abilities, etc. </p><p></p><p>It is fun for me at least to deal with the limitations of choosing spells, and it is also fulfilling to succeed. [That is probably what provided a particular type of intriguing literary creative tension in Jack Vance's stories for the (otherwise all-) powerful wizards, and which can also "work" in D&D]. To mitigate the challenges and rise to the occasion, there are:</p><p></p><p>1. Scrolls, Wands, Rods, Staves [can you say flexible (at a cost)?]</p><p>2. Misc. items of power (rings of spell storing, wizardry, elements, etc.)</p><p>3. Partial memorization</p><p>4. Memory recall and mnemonic enhancers</p><p>5. Feats (gain more spells, gain spell-like 3/day, memorize favs w/out book, change energy dmg on-the-fly, etc.</p><p>6. Wishes</p><p>7. Shadow magic</p><p>8. Illusions</p><p>9. Swap one higher for many lower</p><p>10. Divination school</p><p>11. Permanency</p><p>12. Use of spells (scrying), summoned, familiars, invis/ethereal/other recon, other techniques to gain intel</p><p></p><p>Etc. Etc.</p><p></p><p>Some very appealing mechanics in an RPG system may very well be generated naturally and organically by representing or distilling a "flavor" from compelling fiction that was not necessarily intentionally written to conform to or else launch a game-playing universe. That is also to say that: not all logical and efficient rules in a game system (for fun and competition in imaginative situations) are necessarily the most interesting, or provide a delightful set of challenges which naturally bring about that sometimes elusive quality of character (and player) growth and fulfillment.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tom Strickland, post: 6224863, member: 6753119"] Since it was mentioned as a candidate for both retaining and also--in contrast--excising: Vancian magic likely remains appealing over a long time for some gamers despite numerous logical and fun alternates being available in fiction and RPG's (D&D and also others) because of: the stories. Several current, famous authors give hat tips or more to his writings in multiple genres. I have read extensively in the fantasy and some in the sci-fi realms, especially in previous decades. I did read an anthology of "Dying Earth" tales as a tribute recently. Jack Vance's stories are delightful, magical adventures with danger, cunning, and intrigue, all set in rich tapestries of settings, people and behaviors. So some people who like "vancian magic" in D&D do so because it captures a flavor of magic and adventure. Are there "better" systems? I don't look at it that way. A long time ago I considered the variant and other systems--aside from fully embracing numerous CRPG spell-systems with cool-downs, etc.--and decided that I would run with the Vancian mechanics in P&P because much effort had been spent by great, creative minds, to "balance" entire ecosystems comprised of skills, feats, spells, supernatural abilities, powers, class and creature abilities, etc. It is fun for me at least to deal with the limitations of choosing spells, and it is also fulfilling to succeed. [That is probably what provided a particular type of intriguing literary creative tension in Jack Vance's stories for the (otherwise all-) powerful wizards, and which can also "work" in D&D]. To mitigate the challenges and rise to the occasion, there are: 1. Scrolls, Wands, Rods, Staves [can you say flexible (at a cost)?] 2. Misc. items of power (rings of spell storing, wizardry, elements, etc.) 3. Partial memorization 4. Memory recall and mnemonic enhancers 5. Feats (gain more spells, gain spell-like 3/day, memorize favs w/out book, change energy dmg on-the-fly, etc. 6. Wishes 7. Shadow magic 8. Illusions 9. Swap one higher for many lower 10. Divination school 11. Permanency 12. Use of spells (scrying), summoned, familiars, invis/ethereal/other recon, other techniques to gain intel Etc. Etc. Some very appealing mechanics in an RPG system may very well be generated naturally and organically by representing or distilling a "flavor" from compelling fiction that was not necessarily intentionally written to conform to or else launch a game-playing universe. That is also to say that: not all logical and efficient rules in a game system (for fun and competition in imaginative situations) are necessarily the most interesting, or provide a delightful set of challenges which naturally bring about that sometimes elusive quality of character (and player) growth and fulfillment. [/QUOTE]
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