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What should Rogues do?
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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 6027307" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>The Story of the Rogue has been hashed out quite well over the last several editions, so I don't think we have a need to work on that. But the big issue right now are the <em>mechanics</em> used to convey that Story.</p><p></p><p>Rogues are supposed to have a wider range of applicable adventuring skills than other classes, and be less prone to mess up with them. Right now that is being conveyed by the second Background (giving the Rogue six skills) and Skill Mastery (changing any roll of 1-9 to 10). While I'm fine with the second Background to a certain extent (I like the additional trained skills gained, but the second Background Story the PC now layers on seems a bit like overkill)... I'm not a fan of Skill Mastery because that "hard floor" of a minimum roll takes away some drama for me. There are now just too many DCs the Rogue <em>cannot fail</em> on, and thus screws up bounded accuracy if the DM wants to assign a DC that will be a challenge for the Rogue, while at the same time also not be completely impossible for the other PCs to accomplish as well. I'd prefer another method of conveying Rogues being "better" at skills.</p><p></p><p>To me... there's a simple way to accomplish it that's already in the game:</p><p></p><p><strong>Rogues roll all Ability Checks with Advantage.</strong></p><p></p><p>The elves get to roll all their WIS checks for perception with Advantage and so far I have not found that to be too over the top... so why not give the Rogues the same thing? They will usually always have pretty good rolls (like you'd want from Skill Mastery)... and yet they occasionally <em>still can fail</em>. It'll be rare, for sure... but unlike Skill Mastery, its possible. And what I like about this idea is that if/when the party is in a crazy situation where the Rogue and/or the entire party is suffering from Disadvantage (say, in the midst of a thunderstorm)...</p><p></p><p>...the Rogue now gets to make his ability checks normally because of the Ad/Disad cancellation. There is something to be said for a PC class that is <em>so good under pressure</em> that even on a bucking longboat in the midst of a tidal wave... the Rogue can make a DEX check to balance without ever suffering Disadvantage.</p><p></p><p>THAT'S an ability that is more dramatic to me. Never rolling under a 10 is 'meh'... but never suffering from Disadvantage on any ability check is cool. That's grace under fire. That's Indiana Jones.</p><p></p><p>******</p><p></p><p>Now on the off-chance that granting automatic Advantage for the Rogue on all ability checks does become too much and is too much of an advantage (pun intended)... then I have a secondary mechanic that could also serve as a possibility...</p><p></p><p>The Rogue is the only class where multiple cases of Advantage stack.</p><p></p><p>For all PCs currently... it doesn't matter how many Advantages you are operating under... the first time you get a Disadvantage as well, they all cancel out. But perhaps the Rogue is the one class where that doesn't happen on ability checks? If you have two Advantages and one Disadvantage... the Rogue still has Advantage.</p><p></p><p>I know that this goes against the stated elegance of the Ad/Disad mechanic of not needing to remember how many of each a particular PC has on them at any one time (which is why they cancel each other out)... but perhaps this is the ONE CASE where having a player remember how many of each he has would be okay and provide a cool bonus.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 6027307, member: 7006"] The Story of the Rogue has been hashed out quite well over the last several editions, so I don't think we have a need to work on that. But the big issue right now are the [I]mechanics[/I] used to convey that Story. Rogues are supposed to have a wider range of applicable adventuring skills than other classes, and be less prone to mess up with them. Right now that is being conveyed by the second Background (giving the Rogue six skills) and Skill Mastery (changing any roll of 1-9 to 10). While I'm fine with the second Background to a certain extent (I like the additional trained skills gained, but the second Background Story the PC now layers on seems a bit like overkill)... I'm not a fan of Skill Mastery because that "hard floor" of a minimum roll takes away some drama for me. There are now just too many DCs the Rogue [I]cannot fail[/I] on, and thus screws up bounded accuracy if the DM wants to assign a DC that will be a challenge for the Rogue, while at the same time also not be completely impossible for the other PCs to accomplish as well. I'd prefer another method of conveying Rogues being "better" at skills. To me... there's a simple way to accomplish it that's already in the game: [B]Rogues roll all Ability Checks with Advantage.[/B] The elves get to roll all their WIS checks for perception with Advantage and so far I have not found that to be too over the top... so why not give the Rogues the same thing? They will usually always have pretty good rolls (like you'd want from Skill Mastery)... and yet they occasionally [I]still can fail[/I]. It'll be rare, for sure... but unlike Skill Mastery, its possible. And what I like about this idea is that if/when the party is in a crazy situation where the Rogue and/or the entire party is suffering from Disadvantage (say, in the midst of a thunderstorm)... ...the Rogue now gets to make his ability checks normally because of the Ad/Disad cancellation. There is something to be said for a PC class that is [I]so good under pressure[/I] that even on a bucking longboat in the midst of a tidal wave... the Rogue can make a DEX check to balance without ever suffering Disadvantage. THAT'S an ability that is more dramatic to me. Never rolling under a 10 is 'meh'... but never suffering from Disadvantage on any ability check is cool. That's grace under fire. That's Indiana Jones. ****** Now on the off-chance that granting automatic Advantage for the Rogue on all ability checks does become too much and is too much of an advantage (pun intended)... then I have a secondary mechanic that could also serve as a possibility... The Rogue is the only class where multiple cases of Advantage stack. For all PCs currently... it doesn't matter how many Advantages you are operating under... the first time you get a Disadvantage as well, they all cancel out. But perhaps the Rogue is the one class where that doesn't happen on ability checks? If you have two Advantages and one Disadvantage... the Rogue still has Advantage. I know that this goes against the stated elegance of the Ad/Disad mechanic of not needing to remember how many of each a particular PC has on them at any one time (which is why they cancel each other out)... but perhaps this is the ONE CASE where having a player remember how many of each he has would be okay and provide a cool bonus. [/QUOTE]
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