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What should Rogues do?
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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 6027633" data-attributes="member: 7635"><p>So, lets brainstorm the D&D rogue. </p><p></p><p>First off, its mythical origin. There are plenty of "thieves" and "rogues" in fantasy, literature, myth and movies. Han Solo. Aladdin. Bilbo Baggins. Robin Hood. Taken together, a rogue is good at doing things naturally, but not magically. Han in nearly as good a pilot as Luke without the Force, for example. He's NOT a warrior by trade, but his life is rough enough for him to understand weapons and armor. He's a sneak, a scout, a con-man, an acrobat, a burglar, a pick pocket, and an opportunist. </p><p></p><p>That said, lets see him in the light of the three pillars. </p><p></p><p>EXPLORATION: This should be the rogue's bread and butter. Rogues aren't necessarily diplomats (see below) or sages (which better fit wizards or bards) but they are masters of both physical skills (climb, jump) and navigation skills (find traps, stealth, open lock) as well as roguish talents (forgery, pick pocket, etc). </p><p></p><p>Right now, Next reflects this with a 2nd background from a limited list, but I think its too restricted. As of this playtest, you can be either a thug or a thief, which means you can be either a sneak/scout or a brute. Even when you couple it with another background, you're way too limited. As it stands, you cannot even be good at the classic thief skills (pick pocket, open lock, find traps, stealth, climb, listen read languages), and if you don't use real backgrounds, you're even more hamstrung. </p><p></p><p>At this point, I'd like to see rogue's get a choice of additional rogue skills out of a pool of skills. Something like: "Choose your background, and pick 4 of the following..." You can still do knacks, but divorce them from backgrounds. Rogues should be versed in around 8 skills starting, and have the option to gain more as the game progresses. </p><p></p><p>Next, skill mastery right now is too good. The 10 floor (which is really a 13+ floor) is too good. I'd rather skill mastery grant advantage, rerolls, bonuses to non-trained skills (IE: +1 to all untrained skill checks) as well as the bonus or +3, whichever is higher benefit. I'd also like to make sure not all spells are automatic wins. Here is a good place for that take 10 floor: Invisibility grants a floor of 10 on dex/stealth checks, open lock grants a 10 floor on open lock checks and allows magic locks to be opened, etc. </p><p></p><p>Social: Rogue's shouldn't be THE BEST diplomats (bards should own that role) but I still want to see the option for rogues to be good at bluffing, insight, or intimidation. </p><p></p><p>Combat: I'm not a giant fan of Sneak Attack: its far too feast-or-famine. Still, rogues need something(s) to do in combat. If SA is our only option, I'd like to see rogues be able to do more than dump d6s. SA that can weaken, stun, silence, slow, cripple, or other nasty things should be involved. Rogues should also be good at getting out of trouble; things like evasion or defensive roll. SA should kinda work like Combat Superiority: trade dice to do cool things. Lastly, either lessen the SA dice or make it harder to use. If mixed with using the dice to dodge blows, feint, use dirty tricks, or backstab, rogues get something to do other than stab, hide, repeat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 6027633, member: 7635"] So, lets brainstorm the D&D rogue. First off, its mythical origin. There are plenty of "thieves" and "rogues" in fantasy, literature, myth and movies. Han Solo. Aladdin. Bilbo Baggins. Robin Hood. Taken together, a rogue is good at doing things naturally, but not magically. Han in nearly as good a pilot as Luke without the Force, for example. He's NOT a warrior by trade, but his life is rough enough for him to understand weapons and armor. He's a sneak, a scout, a con-man, an acrobat, a burglar, a pick pocket, and an opportunist. That said, lets see him in the light of the three pillars. EXPLORATION: This should be the rogue's bread and butter. Rogues aren't necessarily diplomats (see below) or sages (which better fit wizards or bards) but they are masters of both physical skills (climb, jump) and navigation skills (find traps, stealth, open lock) as well as roguish talents (forgery, pick pocket, etc). Right now, Next reflects this with a 2nd background from a limited list, but I think its too restricted. As of this playtest, you can be either a thug or a thief, which means you can be either a sneak/scout or a brute. Even when you couple it with another background, you're way too limited. As it stands, you cannot even be good at the classic thief skills (pick pocket, open lock, find traps, stealth, climb, listen read languages), and if you don't use real backgrounds, you're even more hamstrung. At this point, I'd like to see rogue's get a choice of additional rogue skills out of a pool of skills. Something like: "Choose your background, and pick 4 of the following..." You can still do knacks, but divorce them from backgrounds. Rogues should be versed in around 8 skills starting, and have the option to gain more as the game progresses. Next, skill mastery right now is too good. The 10 floor (which is really a 13+ floor) is too good. I'd rather skill mastery grant advantage, rerolls, bonuses to non-trained skills (IE: +1 to all untrained skill checks) as well as the bonus or +3, whichever is higher benefit. I'd also like to make sure not all spells are automatic wins. Here is a good place for that take 10 floor: Invisibility grants a floor of 10 on dex/stealth checks, open lock grants a 10 floor on open lock checks and allows magic locks to be opened, etc. Social: Rogue's shouldn't be THE BEST diplomats (bards should own that role) but I still want to see the option for rogues to be good at bluffing, insight, or intimidation. Combat: I'm not a giant fan of Sneak Attack: its far too feast-or-famine. Still, rogues need something(s) to do in combat. If SA is our only option, I'd like to see rogues be able to do more than dump d6s. SA that can weaken, stun, silence, slow, cripple, or other nasty things should be involved. Rogues should also be good at getting out of trouble; things like evasion or defensive roll. SA should kinda work like Combat Superiority: trade dice to do cool things. Lastly, either lessen the SA dice or make it harder to use. If mixed with using the dice to dodge blows, feint, use dirty tricks, or backstab, rogues get something to do other than stab, hide, repeat. [/QUOTE]
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