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What should Rogues do?
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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 6027905" data-attributes="member: 7635"><p>Early D&D had roles, but they weren't what 4e called them by a longshot.</p><p>Fighters were built for melee combat</p><p>Clerics were healers</p><p>Magic-users were artillery and problem solvers</p><p>Thieves were Sneaks and Trapfinders. </p><p></p><p>Those roles do NOT map to 4e's defender/controller/striker/leader system except in the most general sense. A fighter didn't defend because he had marking, he defended because he was usually first through the door, had plate mail, and rolled d10's for hp. Furthermore, 4e's roles are COMBAT roles, whereas the old roles covered more general areas (healing being required out of combat, or wizard spells like knock). </p><p></p><p>The other classes of AD&D often either mixed these pseudo-roles (paladin: melee + heal, Assassin scout+melee). Monks and bards were hard to play because they filled 3 or all 4 roles, but poorly. </p><p></p><p>You can talk about roles in earlier D&D, but don't try to apply 4e's roles on it. It maps poorly and leads to weird assumptions, like Mr. "2-5d6+str once per combat" being labeled a "striker". </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See above. There is some organic roles that appear (a paladin, fighter, ranger, or barbarian can all handle the melee role well due to high hp, good attacks, and decent armor) just by virtue of giving classes different weapons, armor, HD, spell selection, skills, etc. Where I DO agree is that classes don't need to fit neatly into 4e's roles: A fighter can be a melee monster with high strength and devastating attacks and still "defend" his allies. A rogue need not be about the damage if he has interesting options, and not all leaders need similar "healing" bursts just to be a leader.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 6027905, member: 7635"] Early D&D had roles, but they weren't what 4e called them by a longshot. Fighters were built for melee combat Clerics were healers Magic-users were artillery and problem solvers Thieves were Sneaks and Trapfinders. Those roles do NOT map to 4e's defender/controller/striker/leader system except in the most general sense. A fighter didn't defend because he had marking, he defended because he was usually first through the door, had plate mail, and rolled d10's for hp. Furthermore, 4e's roles are COMBAT roles, whereas the old roles covered more general areas (healing being required out of combat, or wizard spells like knock). The other classes of AD&D often either mixed these pseudo-roles (paladin: melee + heal, Assassin scout+melee). Monks and bards were hard to play because they filled 3 or all 4 roles, but poorly. You can talk about roles in earlier D&D, but don't try to apply 4e's roles on it. It maps poorly and leads to weird assumptions, like Mr. "2-5d6+str once per combat" being labeled a "striker". See above. There is some organic roles that appear (a paladin, fighter, ranger, or barbarian can all handle the melee role well due to high hp, good attacks, and decent armor) just by virtue of giving classes different weapons, armor, HD, spell selection, skills, etc. Where I DO agree is that classes don't need to fit neatly into 4e's roles: A fighter can be a melee monster with high strength and devastating attacks and still "defend" his allies. A rogue need not be about the damage if he has interesting options, and not all leaders need similar "healing" bursts just to be a leader. [/QUOTE]
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