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What Should Today's Archetypes Be
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9111168" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>If we assume that all the things derived from D&D (like <em>Final Fantasy</em>, <em>Elder Scrolls</em>, etc.) remain even though they wouldn't exist without D&D having existed first...</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Humans are a no-brainer.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I'm obviously very biased, but "dragon-person" is a fairly popular concept. It might not have cashed out in the very specific way that it did, e.g. there might be a gracile subrace (along the lines of the "spellscale") and a beefy subrace (akin to what we have now), but <em>some</em> kind of reptilian option seems pretty likely, and tying it to dragons is a no-brainer for popularity.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Elves have staying power. 'nuff said.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Instead of dwarves, we might have gotten some kind of beastkin (cat-people are pretty popular, but wolf-/dog-/fox- or ungulate-people would both be reasonable options.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Plant-person and construct-person might also be a thing.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Could use a hyperintelligent race...perhaps an energy-being of some kind? Or maybe this is where the "catgirl"-type species goes, the ones that aren't really beast-like but have just a light touch of non-human characteristics.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em>One</em> of gnome, goblin, or kobold would likely also fit. Kobolds have a surprisingly ardent following online these days, and PF shows that goblins can be well-loved. Gnomes can be kind of irritating but they too have some ardent fans (and, as the ridiculous 4e gnome brouhaha shows, sometimes it doesn't matter if it's actually <em>liked</em> or not...)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Changeling might fit in well, especially with the modern emphasis on the fluidity of identity and embracing LGBTQ+/nonbinary/etc. characters.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tieflings are probably another no-brainer, mixed demon and human blood is an <em>ooooold</em> trope for both East and West. Might even have aasimar, tiefling, genasi, etc. as all one single race with varying magical bloodlines attached.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Therianthropy is a popular trope, again in both East and West, with numerous representations in film/TV and video games, so I can't imagine there <em>not</em> being something like that, though whether it would cash out as the Eberron "shifter" option is much more debatable.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Half-vampire--again, beloved East and West, edgy but flexible. Hard to go wrong there.</li> </ul><p></p><p>As far as classes...</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Paladin is pretty much a shoe-in, "knight in shining armor" is too classic. This might also end up absorbing the Fighter, who could have a purely <em>personal</em> oath/dedication/focus--e.g. the "Oath of the Champion" or the like.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Likewise, Bard, via things like the Final Fantasy Red Mage and the existing Rogue/Thief archetype</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sorcerer is a maybe, quite flavorful as a concept but perhaps cashing out in a rather different way (e.g. Clive from FFXVI is arguably a Sorcerer, just one who uses heavy melee attacks augmented with magic). Probably would have Dragon, Genie, Fae, and Demon/Devil/Darkness/etc. as choices.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Druid, leaning almost exclusively on shapeshifting with a touch of magic rather than magic with a touch of shapeshifting, specializing in specific forms for specific subclasses</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Priest rather than Cleric--Cleric was very much a product of its time, and the really narrow "Van Helsing crossed with an ordained mendicant monk" thing probably wouldn't be a core thing, more likely a "grim and gritty" subclass of Paladin. Domains would probably still exist (they're a useful way to differentiate deities)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monk, perhaps by a different name, very very likely--between the sustained popularity of martial arts films and things like <em>Avatar the Last Airbender</em>, there's plenty of appetite for such things</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Instead of Rogue, something like "Ninja" or "Assassin," treated as a broader space that can hold more things inside, e.g. fully "mystic" Ninjas to capture the Naruto fanbase, "holy" Ninjas to capture the Assassin's Creed fanbase, etc.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em>Some kind</em> of Wizard would probably still exist, but I would expect MAJOR influences from Harry Potter, Dresden Files, and <em>EverQuest</em>/<em>World of Warcraft</em> here, so they would <em>not</em> necessarily be the highly-complex class we know today.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If "Fighter" remains as a distinct class, it would be more focused on particular traditions of combat rather than being ultra-generic. E.g. the Samurai Fighter, the Swordmage Fighter, the Guerilla Fighter, etc.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ranger probably sticks around just because "hunter" is such a classic concept and we'd still have the influence of things like Green Arrow and Legolas, but I would imagine it having less overt nature association (could <em>possibly</em> get absorbed by Fighter)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Barbarian definitely either continues to exist as its own thing (influenced more by things like <em>Dragon Ball Z</em>, <em>Berserk</em>, and superhero comics), or as a Fighter subclass</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Artificer steps up to take the place of Wizard as the "big brain" class, drawing on Iron Man, Batman, MacGuyver, Sokka/the Mechanist, the Cids of every FF game, etc. Someone who uses magical tools, and magic <em>as</em> a tool. Alchemist, Battlesmith, Gadgeteer...all good subclasses, each with solid representation in video games and usually other media as well.</li> </ul><p>That's twelve races (counting plants and constructs separately) and twelve classes (if Fighter is neither absorbed by, nor absorbs, any other class). Seems pretty solid to me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9111168, member: 6790260"] If we assume that all the things derived from D&D (like [I]Final Fantasy[/I], [I]Elder Scrolls[/I], etc.) remain even though they wouldn't exist without D&D having existed first... [LIST] [*]Humans are a no-brainer. [*]I'm obviously very biased, but "dragon-person" is a fairly popular concept. It might not have cashed out in the very specific way that it did, e.g. there might be a gracile subrace (along the lines of the "spellscale") and a beefy subrace (akin to what we have now), but [I]some[/I] kind of reptilian option seems pretty likely, and tying it to dragons is a no-brainer for popularity. [*]Elves have staying power. 'nuff said. [*]Instead of dwarves, we might have gotten some kind of beastkin (cat-people are pretty popular, but wolf-/dog-/fox- or ungulate-people would both be reasonable options.) [*]Plant-person and construct-person might also be a thing. [*]Could use a hyperintelligent race...perhaps an energy-being of some kind? Or maybe this is where the "catgirl"-type species goes, the ones that aren't really beast-like but have just a light touch of non-human characteristics. [*][I]One[/I] of gnome, goblin, or kobold would likely also fit. Kobolds have a surprisingly ardent following online these days, and PF shows that goblins can be well-loved. Gnomes can be kind of irritating but they too have some ardent fans (and, as the ridiculous 4e gnome brouhaha shows, sometimes it doesn't matter if it's actually [I]liked[/I] or not...) [*]Changeling might fit in well, especially with the modern emphasis on the fluidity of identity and embracing LGBTQ+/nonbinary/etc. characters. [*]Tieflings are probably another no-brainer, mixed demon and human blood is an [I]ooooold[/I] trope for both East and West. Might even have aasimar, tiefling, genasi, etc. as all one single race with varying magical bloodlines attached. [*]Therianthropy is a popular trope, again in both East and West, with numerous representations in film/TV and video games, so I can't imagine there [I]not[/I] being something like that, though whether it would cash out as the Eberron "shifter" option is much more debatable. [*]Half-vampire--again, beloved East and West, edgy but flexible. Hard to go wrong there. [/LIST] As far as classes... [LIST] [*]Paladin is pretty much a shoe-in, "knight in shining armor" is too classic. This might also end up absorbing the Fighter, who could have a purely [I]personal[/I] oath/dedication/focus--e.g. the "Oath of the Champion" or the like. [*]Likewise, Bard, via things like the Final Fantasy Red Mage and the existing Rogue/Thief archetype [*]Sorcerer is a maybe, quite flavorful as a concept but perhaps cashing out in a rather different way (e.g. Clive from FFXVI is arguably a Sorcerer, just one who uses heavy melee attacks augmented with magic). Probably would have Dragon, Genie, Fae, and Demon/Devil/Darkness/etc. as choices. [*]Druid, leaning almost exclusively on shapeshifting with a touch of magic rather than magic with a touch of shapeshifting, specializing in specific forms for specific subclasses [*]Priest rather than Cleric--Cleric was very much a product of its time, and the really narrow "Van Helsing crossed with an ordained mendicant monk" thing probably wouldn't be a core thing, more likely a "grim and gritty" subclass of Paladin. Domains would probably still exist (they're a useful way to differentiate deities) [*]Monk, perhaps by a different name, very very likely--between the sustained popularity of martial arts films and things like [I]Avatar the Last Airbender[/I], there's plenty of appetite for such things [*]Instead of Rogue, something like "Ninja" or "Assassin," treated as a broader space that can hold more things inside, e.g. fully "mystic" Ninjas to capture the Naruto fanbase, "holy" Ninjas to capture the Assassin's Creed fanbase, etc. [*][I]Some kind[/I] of Wizard would probably still exist, but I would expect MAJOR influences from Harry Potter, Dresden Files, and [I]EverQuest[/I]/[I]World of Warcraft[/I] here, so they would [I]not[/I] necessarily be the highly-complex class we know today. [*]If "Fighter" remains as a distinct class, it would be more focused on particular traditions of combat rather than being ultra-generic. E.g. the Samurai Fighter, the Swordmage Fighter, the Guerilla Fighter, etc. [*]Ranger probably sticks around just because "hunter" is such a classic concept and we'd still have the influence of things like Green Arrow and Legolas, but I would imagine it having less overt nature association (could [I]possibly[/I] get absorbed by Fighter) [*]Barbarian definitely either continues to exist as its own thing (influenced more by things like [I]Dragon Ball Z[/I], [I]Berserk[/I], and superhero comics), or as a Fighter subclass [*]Artificer steps up to take the place of Wizard as the "big brain" class, drawing on Iron Man, Batman, MacGuyver, Sokka/the Mechanist, the Cids of every FF game, etc. Someone who uses magical tools, and magic [I]as[/I] a tool. Alchemist, Battlesmith, Gadgeteer...all good subclasses, each with solid representation in video games and usually other media as well. [/LIST] That's twelve races (counting plants and constructs separately) and twelve classes (if Fighter is neither absorbed by, nor absorbs, any other class). Seems pretty solid to me. [/QUOTE]
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