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What solution for "Cantrips don't feel magical"?
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<blockquote data-quote="NaturalZero" data-source="post: 7543652" data-attributes="member: 55705"><p>If we're talking cantrips in this thread, if 5 different characters show up with "light," it doesn't matter what special features you have, it ceases to feel special or magical once everyone can access it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It doesn't feel magical when they all shoot arrows, does it? That's the exact point of the thread.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If everyone is picking the same spells on different classes because players have figured out that those spells are optimal and the system gives 5 different classes access to the same optimal tactics, that is 100% facilitated by the system. If sorcerer is the only class that gets fireball because they system is designed that way and in a different system, 5 characters with 5 different classes take fireball because it's better than the alternative options, it's 100% the system that allows that to happen. If you put 5 players with decent system mastery together in one party and they all play wizards from different schools, most of their spell lists are going to have huge general overlap because that's the system we wound up with.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ah, but Action Surge and Superiority Dice feel special because only one class get them! That's the point. Shooting a bow is mundane. Class features that only one class get are special. Sorcery points are special. 3 classes showing up with firebolt makes it more mundane than forcing the classes to use different things.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The fighter is expending superiority dice to do different maneuvers. The ranger is casting spells to add rider effects. They get DIFFERENT STUFF, which is good and the exact opposite everyone in the party using the exact same cantrips. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The fighter is doing X with arrows. The ranger is doing Y with arrows. Heck, the paladin has at least one ranged smite, IIRC, so he's doing Z with arrows. If the wizard, the sorcerer, the warlock, the eldritch knight, the arcane trickster, all show up and cast Blade Ward, it's not special anymore. That isn't a knock on spellcasting, per se, but it is a huge knock on how they chose to hand cantrips out like candy to everyone in 5e. Things would have been much more special if cantrips were special features for the class they were assigned to.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, there's a lot different stuff in the classes, but cantrips feel less magical when everyone is grabbing the same candy out of the same bowl.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NaturalZero, post: 7543652, member: 55705"] If we're talking cantrips in this thread, if 5 different characters show up with "light," it doesn't matter what special features you have, it ceases to feel special or magical once everyone can access it. It doesn't feel magical when they all shoot arrows, does it? That's the exact point of the thread. If everyone is picking the same spells on different classes because players have figured out that those spells are optimal and the system gives 5 different classes access to the same optimal tactics, that is 100% facilitated by the system. If sorcerer is the only class that gets fireball because they system is designed that way and in a different system, 5 characters with 5 different classes take fireball because it's better than the alternative options, it's 100% the system that allows that to happen. If you put 5 players with decent system mastery together in one party and they all play wizards from different schools, most of their spell lists are going to have huge general overlap because that's the system we wound up with. Ah, but Action Surge and Superiority Dice feel special because only one class get them! That's the point. Shooting a bow is mundane. Class features that only one class get are special. Sorcery points are special. 3 classes showing up with firebolt makes it more mundane than forcing the classes to use different things. The fighter is expending superiority dice to do different maneuvers. The ranger is casting spells to add rider effects. They get DIFFERENT STUFF, which is good and the exact opposite everyone in the party using the exact same cantrips. The fighter is doing X with arrows. The ranger is doing Y with arrows. Heck, the paladin has at least one ranged smite, IIRC, so he's doing Z with arrows. If the wizard, the sorcerer, the warlock, the eldritch knight, the arcane trickster, all show up and cast Blade Ward, it's not special anymore. That isn't a knock on spellcasting, per se, but it is a huge knock on how they chose to hand cantrips out like candy to everyone in 5e. Things would have been much more special if cantrips were special features for the class they were assigned to. Sure, there's a lot different stuff in the classes, but cantrips feel less magical when everyone is grabbing the same candy out of the same bowl. [/QUOTE]
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What solution for "Cantrips don't feel magical"?
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