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What would this assassin do upon seeing the afterlife waiting for him?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6993496" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>This depends on your cosmology. In the typical 'great wheel cosmology' Hell is a prison and place of punishment only because its residents choose to make it so. Those that follow the LE path don't look upon this with horror, perhaps because they always imagine they will be sufficiently far up the diabolical hierarchy in the afterlife (owing to the good service Hell's masters will want them to continue to perform) that they never picture themselves spending their afterlife (for example) hammered into a piece of soulsteel and reshaped into a living valve in the city of Dis's sewage system, or maintained by a sadist with a pitchfork as a manes - a mindless skinless being like an exposed raw nerve - in a pool of living surplus inventory. To be lawful evil, you have to see a world like that as not horrific, but imagine that everyone deserves their station and you will be placed in a position of authority owing to your great worth and utility to the community. The ones they see suffering they imagine to be the jerks that did not serve well enough and need to be repurposed. On a certain level, even if they admit the possibility of ending up in a suffering position, they'll still insist that the condition will be only temporary, that by that time they'll be beyond pain, and fundamentally they'll be on the 'winning side'. </p><p></p><p>The proponents of Hell don't look on the paradises as desirable ends. They look on them as soft and ripe for conquest. They look on them as fantasies not informed by the cruel reality of the 'real world', and that it is their job to conquer these strongholds of delusion (as inevitably they will eventually do) and show them what life is really like. On that day, they'll imagine the 'good' will rue their own situation far more than any follower of hell ever rued theirs.</p><p></p><p>Consider if you find this sentiment somewhat bizarre, how prevalent parallel expressions are in some quarters, as in for example AC/DC's 'Highway to Hell' and the general defiant, "I'd rather go to hell" or "See you in hell" you hear in some places. In D&D, these defiant expressions often make a literal sense, or at least seem to by those that make them.</p><p></p><p>So the first question, is the assassin truly LE by choice. Is he really loyal to some hierarchy or code. If so, why do you suppose he's horrified by his ultimate fate? Service and submission and cruelty are things he believes in. He'd be hypocritical to not celebrate those things. The LE are already, by choice, choosing to make the world brutal, sadistic, cruel and in submission to others as the desirable state of the world. (A good analogy would be to pay close attention to training method of officers in the Japanese Imperial Navy, prior to WWII, with its casual brutality, hazing, and deep submission of individuality to the higher purpose of 'serving the Emperor'. Or, look at the very similar brutality deliberately visited on Spartan boys half a world and an age away.) </p><p></p><p>Now, if on the other hand he's not particularly ideological, and he's always supposed himself 'neutral' or justified in his acts, or he's otherwise not been terribly self-reflective, and he discovers that his soul is currently claimed by the devils of hell unexpectedly, this might prompt some soul searching about how he's been living his life. He might decide he hasn't been selfish enough, and 'to hell' with being self-sacrificing and loyal any further. He might decide he's lived his life too cruelly. He might decide to do as you suggest and start trying to evade the consequences of his own unconscious beliefs. </p><p></p><p>Similar horror might awaken in those that have deliberately sold their soul to the merchants of hell, as they must surely realize that hell will not consider them loyal servants, truly conforming to the ideology of hell if they did so for personal gain. And as those that sought personal gain, they have cause to truly find horror in the impersonal indignities they will surely be subjected to.</p><p></p><p>I have a hard time imagining someone that is truly evil looking for a helm of opposite alignment to become good. The real irony here, is the very desire to repent of his ways and turn a new leaf on life, if it is genuine means that he'd probably ceased to actually be evil. If he then put on a helm of opposite alignment, he might find himself converting back to his evil ways only this time with no feelings of remorse.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6993496, member: 4937"] This depends on your cosmology. In the typical 'great wheel cosmology' Hell is a prison and place of punishment only because its residents choose to make it so. Those that follow the LE path don't look upon this with horror, perhaps because they always imagine they will be sufficiently far up the diabolical hierarchy in the afterlife (owing to the good service Hell's masters will want them to continue to perform) that they never picture themselves spending their afterlife (for example) hammered into a piece of soulsteel and reshaped into a living valve in the city of Dis's sewage system, or maintained by a sadist with a pitchfork as a manes - a mindless skinless being like an exposed raw nerve - in a pool of living surplus inventory. To be lawful evil, you have to see a world like that as not horrific, but imagine that everyone deserves their station and you will be placed in a position of authority owing to your great worth and utility to the community. The ones they see suffering they imagine to be the jerks that did not serve well enough and need to be repurposed. On a certain level, even if they admit the possibility of ending up in a suffering position, they'll still insist that the condition will be only temporary, that by that time they'll be beyond pain, and fundamentally they'll be on the 'winning side'. The proponents of Hell don't look on the paradises as desirable ends. They look on them as soft and ripe for conquest. They look on them as fantasies not informed by the cruel reality of the 'real world', and that it is their job to conquer these strongholds of delusion (as inevitably they will eventually do) and show them what life is really like. On that day, they'll imagine the 'good' will rue their own situation far more than any follower of hell ever rued theirs. Consider if you find this sentiment somewhat bizarre, how prevalent parallel expressions are in some quarters, as in for example AC/DC's 'Highway to Hell' and the general defiant, "I'd rather go to hell" or "See you in hell" you hear in some places. In D&D, these defiant expressions often make a literal sense, or at least seem to by those that make them. So the first question, is the assassin truly LE by choice. Is he really loyal to some hierarchy or code. If so, why do you suppose he's horrified by his ultimate fate? Service and submission and cruelty are things he believes in. He'd be hypocritical to not celebrate those things. The LE are already, by choice, choosing to make the world brutal, sadistic, cruel and in submission to others as the desirable state of the world. (A good analogy would be to pay close attention to training method of officers in the Japanese Imperial Navy, prior to WWII, with its casual brutality, hazing, and deep submission of individuality to the higher purpose of 'serving the Emperor'. Or, look at the very similar brutality deliberately visited on Spartan boys half a world and an age away.) Now, if on the other hand he's not particularly ideological, and he's always supposed himself 'neutral' or justified in his acts, or he's otherwise not been terribly self-reflective, and he discovers that his soul is currently claimed by the devils of hell unexpectedly, this might prompt some soul searching about how he's been living his life. He might decide he hasn't been selfish enough, and 'to hell' with being self-sacrificing and loyal any further. He might decide he's lived his life too cruelly. He might decide to do as you suggest and start trying to evade the consequences of his own unconscious beliefs. Similar horror might awaken in those that have deliberately sold their soul to the merchants of hell, as they must surely realize that hell will not consider them loyal servants, truly conforming to the ideology of hell if they did so for personal gain. And as those that sought personal gain, they have cause to truly find horror in the impersonal indignities they will surely be subjected to. I have a hard time imagining someone that is truly evil looking for a helm of opposite alignment to become good. The real irony here, is the very desire to repent of his ways and turn a new leaf on life, if it is genuine means that he'd probably ceased to actually be evil. If he then put on a helm of opposite alignment, he might find himself converting back to his evil ways only this time with no feelings of remorse. [/QUOTE]
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