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What would you like to see more in an adventure?
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<blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 1282001" data-attributes="member: 1106"><p>Although I agree with your assertion on the level that they're not really my idea of good adventures, I strongly disagree that verisimilitude should take precedence over hard-to-justify-yet-fun dungeon encounters. White Plume Mountain-style dungeons with weird challenges may not make sense, but done well they're generally a lot more fun to play than many of the "cabinet contents" style dungeons which make perfect sense and have bedrooms and latrines for everyone, but someone forgot to add the weird magical fountains and riddle traps-style stuff that makes D&D enjoyable to play, rather than a yawnful tour of real estate with little to do but fight (or indulge in the usual "disguise", or "negotiate with the factions" cop-outs which are available options in most any adventure). If the encounters and locations of the Fighting Fantasy game books all "made sense" in the currently accepted wisdom of D&D, they wouldn't have been nearly as popular, fun or successful as they have been. Funny thing is, few people seem to even realise what they've lost.</p><p></p><p>Again, although it's nice to have verisimilitude, sacrificing the fun for sake of realism is not everyone's idea of a good D&D game, IMO. Mind you, it has to be worth the sacrifice in the other direction as well...compromising verisimilitude for sake of poor quality, unfun anachronisms is bad design as well.</p><p></p><p>I think it depends. In the case of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, if viewed as a regular module as opposed to a "DM's playground" there was really no excuse I could see for not building in a strong, compelling reason for the PCs to want to keep at the monolithic challenge the main dungeon presented. Some suggestions were made, but none seemed compelling enough to warrant the scope of the ensuing crawl. On the other hand, if RttToEE were viewed more as a plotless DM's playground setting ala Keep on the Borderlands, there was no need for presenting a compelling hook - it's more, here's the keys to the car, do what you will with it.</p><p>I believe there's room for both approaches...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rounser, post: 1282001, member: 1106"] Although I agree with your assertion on the level that they're not really my idea of good adventures, I strongly disagree that verisimilitude should take precedence over hard-to-justify-yet-fun dungeon encounters. White Plume Mountain-style dungeons with weird challenges may not make sense, but done well they're generally a lot more fun to play than many of the "cabinet contents" style dungeons which make perfect sense and have bedrooms and latrines for everyone, but someone forgot to add the weird magical fountains and riddle traps-style stuff that makes D&D enjoyable to play, rather than a yawnful tour of real estate with little to do but fight (or indulge in the usual "disguise", or "negotiate with the factions" cop-outs which are available options in most any adventure). If the encounters and locations of the Fighting Fantasy game books all "made sense" in the currently accepted wisdom of D&D, they wouldn't have been nearly as popular, fun or successful as they have been. Funny thing is, few people seem to even realise what they've lost. Again, although it's nice to have verisimilitude, sacrificing the fun for sake of realism is not everyone's idea of a good D&D game, IMO. Mind you, it has to be worth the sacrifice in the other direction as well...compromising verisimilitude for sake of poor quality, unfun anachronisms is bad design as well. I think it depends. In the case of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, if viewed as a regular module as opposed to a "DM's playground" there was really no excuse I could see for not building in a strong, compelling reason for the PCs to want to keep at the monolithic challenge the main dungeon presented. Some suggestions were made, but none seemed compelling enough to warrant the scope of the ensuing crawl. On the other hand, if RttToEE were viewed more as a plotless DM's playground setting ala Keep on the Borderlands, there was no need for presenting a compelling hook - it's more, here's the keys to the car, do what you will with it. I believe there's room for both approaches... [/QUOTE]
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