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(+) What would you want for 5e Dark Sun?
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<blockquote data-quote="Steampunkette" data-source="post: 8336778" data-attributes="member: 6796468"><p>I 100% agree. The only issue I have is trying to keep theme, part of which is scale, while adding weirdness. 'Cause some weirdness is more fitting to the setting than other weirdness. The aforementioned bone mountain, for example, compared to a lush forest made up of giant mushrooms and ferns. Something you might find in Forgotten Realms or a Fantasy MMORPG.</p><p></p><p>A lot of it I do give credit to, yeah. Not the Cerulean Storm or Surfer-Druids... but... yeah. And there's definitely -room- around the Sea of Silt for more societies and more Sorcerer-Kings, I just feel like having 4 or 5 different "Tyr Regions" each with their own thing going on is going to feel like different settings. The amount of focus put on the Tyr Region is similar to the whole of other settings and I've quite enjoyed that.</p><p></p><p>Granted it's not the best storylines in the world, and a lot of the characterization is... hmmn... Weird... But yeah.</p><p></p><p>Not with the goal. I do wanna make that one super clear. We know for a fact that Dark Sun is going to change a buncha stuff to get more modern, which isn't a bad thing. Knowing that it's going to change, those are the ways I would prefer for it to change. I wouldn't mind if they left the Sorcerer Kings more dudely and the setting pretty straight. The Ethnically Diverse one... kinda. I think most people in the setting should be heavily mixed and largely brown in skin tones, rather than a buncha white people in the desert. But that's probably more an issue of the TSR Art Department just defaulting to white without questioning it, y'know?</p><p></p><p>I disagree that it empowers you to do Lifeboat ethics. A party in the wasteland with limited water is doing lifeboat ethics when they find a half-dead person hiding from the sun in the lee of a sand dune, parched and panting, and have to figure out whether to share their water with them.</p><p></p><p>Having a city-state do it as a matter of course presumes an answer. Meanwhile Tyr the Free City itself is a good example of the Lifeboat Ethics problem as it's welcoming a bunch of slaves to come be free and taxing it's water and food supplies in the process, drawing ever closer to a day when the choice must be made whether to close the gates and expel a surplus in order to save those inside... A society that needs to -make- that choice has far more to explore than a city that made it centuries before the game started.</p><p></p><p>That... oof...</p><p></p><p>That is a -strong- image. And much more topical to the present day. Rather than being the handful of "True Powers" in the world they represent a Powerful Interest which they are each petty tyrants of. DAMN. That is a powerful narrative. Holy crap...</p><p></p><p>I mean you'd have to recontextualize a lot of the destruction of the world in the service of genocidal violence into a context of destruction of the world in service to Personal Gain to make it work... Rewrite hefty parts of the rationale behind the Cleansing Wars, just as a start... </p><p></p><p>But that would be a powerful narrative allegory to hinge the setting on. It would update the setting's politics to a more modern understanding of Climate Change and Environmental Apocalyptica...</p><p></p><p>DAMN. I'm gonna be rolling this thing over in my head for a -while-... DAMN.</p><p></p><p>You know, I freaking -was- before you dropped that powerful literary allusion on me and now I'm starting to clamber into the "Rewrite it all" boat.</p><p></p><p>I may be stubborn and have my own mental image of what "Dark Sun should be" but it's not so myopic and strained against intrusion that something that -central- and -powerful- can't shake my position... Because holy crap that is a great big optical shift.</p><p></p><p>2e's canon remains within that context as the world not knowing the bigger truth behind things, but that bigger truth isn't an M. Knight Shyamalan twist.</p><p></p><p>So... Before now. My thought was to spread the Tyr Region across the Tablelands. To have Raam on the north side of the Silt Sea, west of Urik, East of Draj. To have Tyr still be on the Western Side, but the ruins of Giustenal to be on the far side of the Sea of Silt. Then, in the south, Gulg and Nibenay on either side of the Crescent Forest on the southern shores of the Sea of Silt with the Deadlands encroaching from the south. Throw Ur-Draxa on a central-ish island with Rajaat's prison out there, and make the Pristine Tower a Lighthouse in the West-Northwest area of the Silt Sea itself.</p><p></p><p>That way the Sorcerer-Kings were a specific set of important powerful enemies that a player could work for, fight against, or whatever, with great distances between that are largely unmapped and detailed maps of the environments near to the City-States themselves.</p><p></p><p>Even now I might like to spread them out further, reduce some of their splendor, too... But I'm also moving into the "Let's reduce their overall importance by adding more Sorcerer Kings". Possibly with a hint of "Rewrite Rajaat and the Cleansing Wars"</p><p></p><p>Remoteness is fine. My issue was always the diluting of the Sorcerer King narrative. But... yeah. Holy crap.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steampunkette, post: 8336778, member: 6796468"] I 100% agree. The only issue I have is trying to keep theme, part of which is scale, while adding weirdness. 'Cause some weirdness is more fitting to the setting than other weirdness. The aforementioned bone mountain, for example, compared to a lush forest made up of giant mushrooms and ferns. Something you might find in Forgotten Realms or a Fantasy MMORPG. A lot of it I do give credit to, yeah. Not the Cerulean Storm or Surfer-Druids... but... yeah. And there's definitely -room- around the Sea of Silt for more societies and more Sorcerer-Kings, I just feel like having 4 or 5 different "Tyr Regions" each with their own thing going on is going to feel like different settings. The amount of focus put on the Tyr Region is similar to the whole of other settings and I've quite enjoyed that. Granted it's not the best storylines in the world, and a lot of the characterization is... hmmn... Weird... But yeah. Not with the goal. I do wanna make that one super clear. We know for a fact that Dark Sun is going to change a buncha stuff to get more modern, which isn't a bad thing. Knowing that it's going to change, those are the ways I would prefer for it to change. I wouldn't mind if they left the Sorcerer Kings more dudely and the setting pretty straight. The Ethnically Diverse one... kinda. I think most people in the setting should be heavily mixed and largely brown in skin tones, rather than a buncha white people in the desert. But that's probably more an issue of the TSR Art Department just defaulting to white without questioning it, y'know? I disagree that it empowers you to do Lifeboat ethics. A party in the wasteland with limited water is doing lifeboat ethics when they find a half-dead person hiding from the sun in the lee of a sand dune, parched and panting, and have to figure out whether to share their water with them. Having a city-state do it as a matter of course presumes an answer. Meanwhile Tyr the Free City itself is a good example of the Lifeboat Ethics problem as it's welcoming a bunch of slaves to come be free and taxing it's water and food supplies in the process, drawing ever closer to a day when the choice must be made whether to close the gates and expel a surplus in order to save those inside... A society that needs to -make- that choice has far more to explore than a city that made it centuries before the game started. That... oof... That is a -strong- image. And much more topical to the present day. Rather than being the handful of "True Powers" in the world they represent a Powerful Interest which they are each petty tyrants of. DAMN. That is a powerful narrative. Holy crap... I mean you'd have to recontextualize a lot of the destruction of the world in the service of genocidal violence into a context of destruction of the world in service to Personal Gain to make it work... Rewrite hefty parts of the rationale behind the Cleansing Wars, just as a start... But that would be a powerful narrative allegory to hinge the setting on. It would update the setting's politics to a more modern understanding of Climate Change and Environmental Apocalyptica... DAMN. I'm gonna be rolling this thing over in my head for a -while-... DAMN. You know, I freaking -was- before you dropped that powerful literary allusion on me and now I'm starting to clamber into the "Rewrite it all" boat. I may be stubborn and have my own mental image of what "Dark Sun should be" but it's not so myopic and strained against intrusion that something that -central- and -powerful- can't shake my position... Because holy crap that is a great big optical shift. 2e's canon remains within that context as the world not knowing the bigger truth behind things, but that bigger truth isn't an M. Knight Shyamalan twist. So... Before now. My thought was to spread the Tyr Region across the Tablelands. To have Raam on the north side of the Silt Sea, west of Urik, East of Draj. To have Tyr still be on the Western Side, but the ruins of Giustenal to be on the far side of the Sea of Silt. Then, in the south, Gulg and Nibenay on either side of the Crescent Forest on the southern shores of the Sea of Silt with the Deadlands encroaching from the south. Throw Ur-Draxa on a central-ish island with Rajaat's prison out there, and make the Pristine Tower a Lighthouse in the West-Northwest area of the Silt Sea itself. That way the Sorcerer-Kings were a specific set of important powerful enemies that a player could work for, fight against, or whatever, with great distances between that are largely unmapped and detailed maps of the environments near to the City-States themselves. Even now I might like to spread them out further, reduce some of their splendor, too... But I'm also moving into the "Let's reduce their overall importance by adding more Sorcerer Kings". Possibly with a hint of "Rewrite Rajaat and the Cleansing Wars" Remoteness is fine. My issue was always the diluting of the Sorcerer King narrative. But... yeah. Holy crap. [/QUOTE]
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