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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tymophil" data-source="post: 5611831" data-attributes="member: 46923"><p>I think most critics of D&D 4 criticize <em>Wizards of the Coast</em> rather than D&D4 mechanics. Even <u>before</u> D&D 4 was launched, people liked to criticize <em>Wizards of the Coast</em> for every decision they made. Sure the D&D 3.5 thing was seen as a greedy move, and played a part in this vision of the company bad image.</p><p></p><p>Moreover, everyone expected <em>Wizards of the Coast</em> to publish an OGL along with D&D 4. They did not, and players felt betrayed.</p><p></p><p>Once this was done every little error in design would get huge in the eyes of the players.</p><p></p><p>But there were other big errors... D&D4 is a good system: it is a pleasure to write adventures for this system. Contrary to what people often say on the forums, it is possible, and easy, to write <u>every kind of adventure</u> with this system. It's not combat and dungeon exploration only...</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, <em>Wizards of the Coast</em> chose to restrict the third parties productions. So we are left with below average (to say the least) adventures written by <em>Wizards of the Coast</em>. <em>TSR</em> and <em>WotC</em> rarely produced above average adventures, and D&D4 is no exception.</p><p></p><p>The best "official" adventures, for earlier editions, were (in my opinion) to be found in <em>Dungeon</em>. Because there were lots of different writers and styles. <em>Dungeon</em> doesn't seem to be as creative nowadays... Rather than being creative, it seems that the adventures are there to illustrate one stereotyped vision of the system.</p><p></p><p>It seems to me that the staff at WotC develops adventures with tried and true rules. So <em>tried and true</em> that they produce bland settings (<em>Points of Light</em> is as bland as possible for me). I remember listening to a session were developpers from WotC duscussed scenario writing. It was a terrible : one vision... D&D lost diversity in adventure/setting design, it impacted badly on the brand as a whole.</p><p></p><p>Other blunders (in my opinion).</p><p><strong>1.</strong> The (first) <em>Dungeon Master Guide</em> was a failure in my opinion. Badly written, and some systems (skill challenges comes to mind) were badly depicted. The second DMG was a pleasure to read... But why did the ideas in this book never get implemented into official adventures ?</p><p><strong>2.</strong> The <em>Players Handbook</em> had too few classes and races. Everyone expected to have at least as many options as in the 3.5 book.</p><p><strong>3.</strong> The first published adventure (Keep on the Shadowfell) was bad/bland, and there was no alternative to this terrible adventure to test/taste the new game. I had the feeling the adventure was only there to illustrate one vision of the new system : the worst one.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tymophil, post: 5611831, member: 46923"] I think most critics of D&D 4 criticize [I]Wizards of the Coast[/I] rather than D&D4 mechanics. Even [U]before[/U] D&D 4 was launched, people liked to criticize [I]Wizards of the Coast[/I] for every decision they made. Sure the D&D 3.5 thing was seen as a greedy move, and played a part in this vision of the company bad image. Moreover, everyone expected [I]Wizards of the Coast[/I] to publish an OGL along with D&D 4. They did not, and players felt betrayed. Once this was done every little error in design would get huge in the eyes of the players. But there were other big errors... D&D4 is a good system: it is a pleasure to write adventures for this system. Contrary to what people often say on the forums, it is possible, and easy, to write [U]every kind of adventure[/U] with this system. It's not combat and dungeon exploration only... Unfortunately, [I]Wizards of the Coast[/I] chose to restrict the third parties productions. So we are left with below average (to say the least) adventures written by [I]Wizards of the Coast[/I]. [I]TSR[/I] and [I]WotC[/I] rarely produced above average adventures, and D&D4 is no exception. The best "official" adventures, for earlier editions, were (in my opinion) to be found in [I]Dungeon[/I]. Because there were lots of different writers and styles. [I]Dungeon[/I] doesn't seem to be as creative nowadays... Rather than being creative, it seems that the adventures are there to illustrate one stereotyped vision of the system. It seems to me that the staff at WotC develops adventures with tried and true rules. So [I]tried and true[/I] that they produce bland settings ([I]Points of Light[/I] is as bland as possible for me). I remember listening to a session were developpers from WotC duscussed scenario writing. It was a terrible : one vision... D&D lost diversity in adventure/setting design, it impacted badly on the brand as a whole. Other blunders (in my opinion). [B]1.[/B] The (first) [I]Dungeon Master Guide[/I] was a failure in my opinion. Badly written, and some systems (skill challenges comes to mind) were badly depicted. The second DMG was a pleasure to read... But why did the ideas in this book never get implemented into official adventures ? [B]2.[/B] The [I]Players Handbook[/I] had too few classes and races. Everyone expected to have at least as many options as in the 3.5 book. [B]3.[/B] The first published adventure (Keep on the Shadowfell) was bad/bland, and there was no alternative to this terrible adventure to test/taste the new game. I had the feeling the adventure was only there to illustrate one vision of the new system : the worst one. [/QUOTE]
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