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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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<blockquote data-quote="Herschel" data-source="post: 5612106" data-attributes="member: 78357"><p>Must spread XP but this is right on the head. </p><p> </p><p>Three things 4E did that were good systemically but turned some people off:</p><p> </p><p>1. Thumbed its nose at minutia monkeys outside of combat. It originally lessened it in combat but that's really not the case any more. </p><p> </p><p>2. Tried to focus more on <em>the party</em> instead of individual characters. They tried to get away from the "I win" spellchuckers and make it so every player/class would have fun at the table. This means a greater focus on tactics instead of spell lists. It means a boon to those who can think on their feet vs. pre-planning eveything. </p><p> </p><p>3. It not only shut some sacred cows out of the temple, it took 'em out back, shot 'em and asked if you want fries with that. Old school healing, for example, is toast. It's more cinematic now and quite frankly works a whole heck of a lot better, in no small part because there are multiple classes that can fulfill that role now. </p><p> </p><p>Where 4E really missed was in its presentation of some things. </p><p> </p><p>Skill challenges are great, so long as you don't announce them or make it clear the party is in one. The way they were presented makes it seem like you would run it encapsulated like a combat encounter, which sucks. A lot. They're great when the party doesn't realize they'r ein one for teh first couple of rolls. </p><p> </p><p>The PH1 read too much like a technical manual. I understand why they did, it's still a rather hefty book, but the intro section was fairly short and for established games who may initially skip the "what is D&D" section it really was a bit dry to read. </p><p> </p><p>Quick battles against mooks. Minions werre a GREAT addition, and the ability to skill check by some mooks was too. However, the way encounter design was presented it didn't outline any battle against <em>just</em> mooks. So it seems like every battle is meatier and if you follow more directly what was written, could be longer.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Herschel, post: 5612106, member: 78357"] Must spread XP but this is right on the head. Three things 4E did that were good systemically but turned some people off: 1. Thumbed its nose at minutia monkeys outside of combat. It originally lessened it in combat but that's really not the case any more. 2. Tried to focus more on [I]the party[/I] instead of individual characters. They tried to get away from the "I win" spellchuckers and make it so every player/class would have fun at the table. This means a greater focus on tactics instead of spell lists. It means a boon to those who can think on their feet vs. pre-planning eveything. 3. It not only shut some sacred cows out of the temple, it took 'em out back, shot 'em and asked if you want fries with that. Old school healing, for example, is toast. It's more cinematic now and quite frankly works a whole heck of a lot better, in no small part because there are multiple classes that can fulfill that role now. Where 4E really missed was in its presentation of some things. Skill challenges are great, so long as you don't announce them or make it clear the party is in one. The way they were presented makes it seem like you would run it encapsulated like a combat encounter, which sucks. A lot. They're great when the party doesn't realize they'r ein one for teh first couple of rolls. The PH1 read too much like a technical manual. I understand why they did, it's still a rather hefty book, but the intro section was fairly short and for established games who may initially skip the "what is D&D" section it really was a bit dry to read. Quick battles against mooks. Minions werre a GREAT addition, and the ability to skill check by some mooks was too. However, the way encounter design was presented it didn't outline any battle against [I]just[/I] mooks. So it seems like every battle is meatier and if you follow more directly what was written, could be longer. [/QUOTE]
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What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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