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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 5612131" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>Continuing the constructive criticism from active 4e gamers who do understand the system, enjoy it for what it is, and have good ideas about improving it...</p><p></p><p>I feel the disconnect between narrative and mechanics was a missed opportunity. What exactly is happening when a paladin's mark takes radiant damage for attacking someone else? Why are some powers limited to daily use for martial types? Arcane types? How can a fighter using Come and Get It provoke a creature of animal intelligence into coming closer? When a cleric is invested with divine power what does that rite entail and why is it irreversible? </p><p></p><p>As a corollary I noticed the strictly defined powers seemed to restrict the creative spontaneity of players at my table, my friend's table, and D&D Encounters. To a certain extent this is a player type thing, but there could be better guidance for improvising effects or more extensive examples of terrain powers (and these should be slightly more attractive than class powers IMO).</p><p></p><p>I've really tweaked the system to get fights that don't eat up so much time and can be run without minis and battlemaps. It would be nice if that option was built right into the game. D&D began as a war-game and it will always have that element in any edition, but it's evolved to a point where there are other styles of play that (I hope) aren't the minority. Those should be supported.</p><p></p><p>And for a system which is so tightly focused around combat, it sure has felt like a beta version at times. I chalk this up to sloppy playtesting or playtesting with a narrow subset of players. I realize with a development schedule there's a press to get the product on shelves asap, but if you've got a problem with DCs, monster design, hit probabilities, I hope it would be worth it to get the game polished first. I caught on to several of these issues during my first month running 4e and changed what I could, it wasn't hard.</p><p></p><p>And I would like more support for gaming outside of combat - expanding on milestones/rests when you've only got one encounter per day, governing/building a keep, roleplaying dilemmas and choice trees, scouting, etc.</p><p></p><p>OTOH, as a DM I love how easy putting together my own adventures is - that has been one of 4e's strengths that I haven't seen in other tactically heavy games.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 5612131, member: 20323"] Continuing the constructive criticism from active 4e gamers who do understand the system, enjoy it for what it is, and have good ideas about improving it... I feel the disconnect between narrative and mechanics was a missed opportunity. What exactly is happening when a paladin's mark takes radiant damage for attacking someone else? Why are some powers limited to daily use for martial types? Arcane types? How can a fighter using Come and Get It provoke a creature of animal intelligence into coming closer? When a cleric is invested with divine power what does that rite entail and why is it irreversible? As a corollary I noticed the strictly defined powers seemed to restrict the creative spontaneity of players at my table, my friend's table, and D&D Encounters. To a certain extent this is a player type thing, but there could be better guidance for improvising effects or more extensive examples of terrain powers (and these should be slightly more attractive than class powers IMO). I've really tweaked the system to get fights that don't eat up so much time and can be run without minis and battlemaps. It would be nice if that option was built right into the game. D&D began as a war-game and it will always have that element in any edition, but it's evolved to a point where there are other styles of play that (I hope) aren't the minority. Those should be supported. And for a system which is so tightly focused around combat, it sure has felt like a beta version at times. I chalk this up to sloppy playtesting or playtesting with a narrow subset of players. I realize with a development schedule there's a press to get the product on shelves asap, but if you've got a problem with DCs, monster design, hit probabilities, I hope it would be worth it to get the game polished first. I caught on to several of these issues during my first month running 4e and changed what I could, it wasn't hard. And I would like more support for gaming outside of combat - expanding on milestones/rests when you've only got one encounter per day, governing/building a keep, roleplaying dilemmas and choice trees, scouting, etc. OTOH, as a DM I love how easy putting together my own adventures is - that has been one of 4e's strengths that I haven't seen in other tactically heavy games. [/QUOTE]
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What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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