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D&D Older Editions
What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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<blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 5612144" data-attributes="member: 3424"><p>The way I see it, that's the price you have to pay if you want to stretch the limits of what can be accomplished by martial characters. Because you don't have the "it's magic!" handwave, the players (and the DM) need to work harder to ensure that the narrative remains realistic. If you don't want to make the effort, you can cut out the more fantasitic options for martial characters and still end up with a workable game - just one in which the martial characters are more limited. </p><p></p><p>That said, it shouldn't be an issue most of the time. A warlord's "shouting" (side note: why are warlords always "shouting" in these negative examples, anyway? It's almost as if they are caricatures deliberately designed to make warlords look bad) restores a character's determination and fighting spirit, which translates into a recovery of hit points. The character's wounds have not been healed, but he's fighting on in spite of them.</p><p></p><p>Similarly, you can look at the relationship between class role and class abilities in the other direction. The warlord doesn't heal because he is a leader; he is a leader because he can inspire his allies to keep fighting. The paladin doesn't mark because he's a defender; he is a defender because he has the divinely-granted ability to challenge an enemy to face him in combat, and to punish him if he does not.</p><p></p><p>But, if you strip the hyperbole out of the argument, there is a real core concern: 4E characters, even low-level ones, are larger than life. Those empowered by magical forces, whether arcane, divine, primal, psionic, or shadow, show much less restraint in the use of their abilities compared to previous editions. A paladin is much more magical in 4E: he can infuse his weapon with radiant energy and call down divine retribution on his enemies practically at will. Even martial characters routinely perform the improbable (at least by real-world standards). This can be a culture shock for players who prefer their characters to be more grounded in reality.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FireLance, post: 5612144, member: 3424"] The way I see it, that's the price you have to pay if you want to stretch the limits of what can be accomplished by martial characters. Because you don't have the "it's magic!" handwave, the players (and the DM) need to work harder to ensure that the narrative remains realistic. If you don't want to make the effort, you can cut out the more fantasitic options for martial characters and still end up with a workable game - just one in which the martial characters are more limited. That said, it shouldn't be an issue most of the time. A warlord's "shouting" (side note: why are warlords always "shouting" in these negative examples, anyway? It's almost as if they are caricatures deliberately designed to make warlords look bad) restores a character's determination and fighting spirit, which translates into a recovery of hit points. The character's wounds have not been healed, but he's fighting on in spite of them. Similarly, you can look at the relationship between class role and class abilities in the other direction. The warlord doesn't heal because he is a leader; he is a leader because he can inspire his allies to keep fighting. The paladin doesn't mark because he's a defender; he is a defender because he has the divinely-granted ability to challenge an enemy to face him in combat, and to punish him if he does not. But, if you strip the hyperbole out of the argument, there is a real core concern: 4E characters, even low-level ones, are larger than life. Those empowered by magical forces, whether arcane, divine, primal, psionic, or shadow, show much less restraint in the use of their abilities compared to previous editions. A paladin is much more magical in 4E: he can infuse his weapon with radiant energy and call down divine retribution on his enemies practically at will. Even martial characters routinely perform the improbable (at least by real-world standards). This can be a culture shock for players who prefer their characters to be more grounded in reality. [/QUOTE]
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What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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