Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Pentius" data-source="post: 5638833" data-attributes="member: 6676736"><p>As fun as the "Blame the game, not the playa" pow-wow is, I tend to disagree. The DM influences the game in a lot of ways, many of which we tend not to even consciously think about. Now, I'm not calling anyone a Bad DM, but honestly, anyone who tells you he's a Perfect DM is lying through his teeth. We've all got something we could be doing better. I've seen a lot in these last few pages of "Here's the problems I'm having, but well, nothing I can do." </p><p></p><p>I propose a different solution. Do something. </p><p></p><p>You say the transition from non-combat to combat is too harsh? Soften it. I used to terrible about the transition. Things would be all Shared-Narrative Freeform, then combat comes. Wait, guys, I gotta sketch the map real quick on the whiteboard. I gotta grab the monster minis out of my case and arrange them. Can somebody write down initiative? It was bad. Then I played with a DM who did it better. He had the maps all pre-drawn on the battlemat, sections our characters couldn't see covered with loose paper. Monsters were placed as soon as we saw them, which was frequently well before combat. If it wasn't, he had them lined up behind the screen, ready to grab. When the Monster Vault came out, he put the monster tokens down under the paper and cleaned that step up even further. We got to the point where the transition was "Gentlemen, place your minis and roll initiative." and we could've trimmed it further.</p><p></p><p>You say the transition is harsh because the fiction suddenly takes a backseat to the mechanics? Play up your fiction, play down your mechanical descriptions. Don't just play up the fiction with description and dialogue, do it with situation. Don't send the players against orcs 178-183, who are probably all Evil and stuff. Send them against the bandits who have been plaguing the area, who are the reason the barmaid had tear lines through her makeup and the reason the PCs couldn't get dinner there, no matter how much coin they offered. Conversely, don't describe mechanics at all if you don't have to. Tell the players how much damage they take and whether they hit, and precious little else. Tell them the monster lurches forward, arms outstretched, not that it moves 4 squares. Players will generally follow suit with this sort of thing. Feeling like the fiction doesn't inform the system or the outcome enough in combat? Let it. Your monsters can use page 42, too. Have them hurl things, vault over balconies, pull rugs out from under feet and tip over the brazier to set the room on fire. Offer ad hoc page 42 effects when the player makes a good description. Heck, hand out cookies if you have to, but make it clear to your players that the fiction informs the system and playing the fiction first will have rewards.</p><p></p><p>You mentioned the levels being just a number treadmill, everything being basically the same across levels. Find where it's different, or where it could be different, and play that up. Go on an extra-planar journey. Hand out some really cool rituals. You know your party, I don't. Find the things they couldn't do at first, but are much better at now. Got a lot of AoE? Waves of minions/low HP monsters. Throw heavier effects at the players. Turn one to stone.</p><p></p><p>And if you really, really need to stop the 4e campaign to try other systems? Turn them ALL to stone. An NPC can unstone them later.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pentius, post: 5638833, member: 6676736"] As fun as the "Blame the game, not the playa" pow-wow is, I tend to disagree. The DM influences the game in a lot of ways, many of which we tend not to even consciously think about. Now, I'm not calling anyone a Bad DM, but honestly, anyone who tells you he's a Perfect DM is lying through his teeth. We've all got something we could be doing better. I've seen a lot in these last few pages of "Here's the problems I'm having, but well, nothing I can do." I propose a different solution. Do something. You say the transition from non-combat to combat is too harsh? Soften it. I used to terrible about the transition. Things would be all Shared-Narrative Freeform, then combat comes. Wait, guys, I gotta sketch the map real quick on the whiteboard. I gotta grab the monster minis out of my case and arrange them. Can somebody write down initiative? It was bad. Then I played with a DM who did it better. He had the maps all pre-drawn on the battlemat, sections our characters couldn't see covered with loose paper. Monsters were placed as soon as we saw them, which was frequently well before combat. If it wasn't, he had them lined up behind the screen, ready to grab. When the Monster Vault came out, he put the monster tokens down under the paper and cleaned that step up even further. We got to the point where the transition was "Gentlemen, place your minis and roll initiative." and we could've trimmed it further. You say the transition is harsh because the fiction suddenly takes a backseat to the mechanics? Play up your fiction, play down your mechanical descriptions. Don't just play up the fiction with description and dialogue, do it with situation. Don't send the players against orcs 178-183, who are probably all Evil and stuff. Send them against the bandits who have been plaguing the area, who are the reason the barmaid had tear lines through her makeup and the reason the PCs couldn't get dinner there, no matter how much coin they offered. Conversely, don't describe mechanics at all if you don't have to. Tell the players how much damage they take and whether they hit, and precious little else. Tell them the monster lurches forward, arms outstretched, not that it moves 4 squares. Players will generally follow suit with this sort of thing. Feeling like the fiction doesn't inform the system or the outcome enough in combat? Let it. Your monsters can use page 42, too. Have them hurl things, vault over balconies, pull rugs out from under feet and tip over the brazier to set the room on fire. Offer ad hoc page 42 effects when the player makes a good description. Heck, hand out cookies if you have to, but make it clear to your players that the fiction informs the system and playing the fiction first will have rewards. You mentioned the levels being just a number treadmill, everything being basically the same across levels. Find where it's different, or where it could be different, and play that up. Go on an extra-planar journey. Hand out some really cool rituals. You know your party, I don't. Find the things they couldn't do at first, but are much better at now. Got a lot of AoE? Waves of minions/low HP monsters. Throw heavier effects at the players. Turn one to stone. And if you really, really need to stop the 4e campaign to try other systems? Turn them ALL to stone. An NPC can unstone them later. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
Top