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When did the Fighter become "defender"?
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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5902967" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>See, this doesn't match my experience at all. I'd find "going down" in the second method (where it's assumed) about on par with a "stunned" condition. I lose my action, but it's assumed I'll be up, and without too much trouble (minor action healing). I wouldn't find it any more dramatic or tension-inducing than if I was stunned in a particularly close fight in the former system (where it's not assumed you'll drop).</p><p></p><p>But, that's because my mind will process the norms, and things that are frequent become more mundane. That is, the more I drop in combat with no real dangerous effect, the more dropping in combat becomes mundane to me. In the former situation, getting lower on HP is tension-inducing because going down is a really bad thing; in the latter, getting lower on HP isn't unless I'm low on healing surges, the system just throws a stunned condition on me a few times a fight (which is fine in its own right).</p><p></p><p>But, really, if I went from 50 HP down to 10 in a fight where it's not assumed that dropping twice per fight is par for the course, then I'm probably feeling some tension, because I'm close to being down. Things like good in-combat healing make this feeling ease some (Mass Cures from 3.X), but a small window between down and dead raises tension since I might be one-shot (down at -1 but dead at -10 in 3.X, and monsters often hit harder as you level).</p><p></p><p>They're both mundane in different ways. The more frequently they're thrown on me, the more mundane they become. But, really, forcing me down a couple times per fight isn't more tense because I feel like I'm almost dead (that's only true after two failed death saves, not because I dropped). No, forcing me down might be tense if the party needed to act but I couldn't contribute, which is about the level of being stunned (which might be mildly irritating if I skip a good number of turns, like many people complain about when you "go down early in a fight and miss the rest of it").</p><p></p><p>Just my take on it. I, personally, don't feel like fights are any "harder" when I'm dropped multiple times, unless that actually makes a difference. As of the point you've assumed that and factored that in, you've deliberately relieved the tension (not to mention that the frequency also relieves tension), and it's just the same combat routine again ("ho hum, lost 40 out of my 50 hit points; how mundane!"). As always, play what you like <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 5902967, member: 6668292"] See, this doesn't match my experience at all. I'd find "going down" in the second method (where it's assumed) about on par with a "stunned" condition. I lose my action, but it's assumed I'll be up, and without too much trouble (minor action healing). I wouldn't find it any more dramatic or tension-inducing than if I was stunned in a particularly close fight in the former system (where it's not assumed you'll drop). But, that's because my mind will process the norms, and things that are frequent become more mundane. That is, the more I drop in combat with no real dangerous effect, the more dropping in combat becomes mundane to me. In the former situation, getting lower on HP is tension-inducing because going down is a really bad thing; in the latter, getting lower on HP isn't unless I'm low on healing surges, the system just throws a stunned condition on me a few times a fight (which is fine in its own right). But, really, if I went from 50 HP down to 10 in a fight where it's not assumed that dropping twice per fight is par for the course, then I'm probably feeling some tension, because I'm close to being down. Things like good in-combat healing make this feeling ease some (Mass Cures from 3.X), but a small window between down and dead raises tension since I might be one-shot (down at -1 but dead at -10 in 3.X, and monsters often hit harder as you level). They're both mundane in different ways. The more frequently they're thrown on me, the more mundane they become. But, really, forcing me down a couple times per fight isn't more tense because I feel like I'm almost dead (that's only true after two failed death saves, not because I dropped). No, forcing me down might be tense if the party needed to act but I couldn't contribute, which is about the level of being stunned (which might be mildly irritating if I skip a good number of turns, like many people complain about when you "go down early in a fight and miss the rest of it"). Just my take on it. I, personally, don't feel like fights are any "harder" when I'm dropped multiple times, unless that actually makes a difference. As of the point you've assumed that and factored that in, you've deliberately relieved the tension (not to mention that the frequency also relieves tension), and it's just the same combat routine again ("ho hum, lost 40 out of my 50 hit points; how mundane!"). As always, play what you like :) [/QUOTE]
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When did the Fighter become "defender"?
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